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Quote of the Day, By Stephen Hawking
Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist. Link,
Categories: Religion
Quote of the Day, By Stephen Hawking
Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist. Link,
Categories: Religion
Richard Carrier Responds to The Infidel Delusion ebook
To read what he said just click here.
Categories: Religion
Richard Carrier Responds to The Infidel Delusion ebook
To read what he said just click here.
Categories: Religion
the B**BQUAKE - 911 - THE END OF ATHEISM
hawking is WRONG
science cannot explain NOTHING!
FAIR AND BALANCED!
add comment moderation to your BS or more people will die with you…
NO GODS AND NO POLITICS WITH THESE LITTLE IDIOTS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyEISfS15g4&feature=player_embedded
plush safe he think
http://www.christies.com/lotfinderimages/D14781/d1478164x.jpg
but with recent revelations about James Randi, I think he likes DICKS!
____________________
THE SECOND COMING!
THE END OF ATHEISM
FOLLOW THE WHITE RABBIT…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smwrw4sNCxE
THE B**BQUAKE - 911
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeblvLoVJCA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZZ2PPBzP8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvSljPf9on4&feature=related
you are going to pay the price for this….
THE RUBBER DUCKY OF PSEUDOSCIENCE III - JAMES RANDI
http://daddytypes.com/archive/hofman_rubber_duckie.jpg
there is a lot of sh*t to flush!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2AezJo8aQ
THE HEAD OF THE INFIDEL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojR-XRt4rrA
Is America burning yet?
Maybe we need some more…
we use the DIVINE against the ESTABLISHMENT… you?
we do better DEMOLITIONS than you, savage…
RENOUNCE YOUR ATHEISM AND JOIN THE SOCIALIST FAITH!
let them know if the MDC continues more people will die…
the WORLD TRADE CENTER PROPHECY - THE DANCE OF DEATH
FLUSH ATHEISM!
Actually it is a ROYAL FLUSH!!!
Let me show you how ATHEISTS were partially responsible for 911
These ATHEISTS NEED TO BE ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST!
You don’t even have SCIENCE on your side…
You’re a perfect example of when PHILOSOPHY becomes an ENEMY OF LIFE…
http://stephenlaw.blogspot.com/2010/06/playing-mystery-card.html
not quite samantha with her *supernatural spit*, eh?
this isn’t one of your little WORD GAMES…
blasphemy is a DEATH SENTENCE
you people actually BELIEVE the BS you preach!
GOD 1 - atheists 0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQcNiD0Z3MU
Atheists,
you are ENEMIES OF GOD AND ARE GOING TO BE ANNIHILATED…
Repent and turn to God or be destroyed…
YOU HAVE NO CHOICE…
my interpretation of the STATUE FIRE… it symbolizes the SPIRITUAL DEATH of atheism…
http://www.salon.com/news/2010/06/15/us_lightning_strikes_jesus_statue
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2010-06/54332292.jpg
http://friendlyatheist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/butterjesus-1.jpg
PRINCESS DI IS WEARING A NEW DRESS!
http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/speechesandarticles/a_speech_by_hrh_the_prince_of_wales_titled_islam_and_the_env_252516346.html
______________________________
http://skepticblog.org/2010/04/06/would-i-ever-pray-for-a-miracle/
Shermer, I WANT TO SEE YOU BEG FOR A MIRACLE…
___________________
we do like your music Lady Gaga, but…
The B**BQUAKE - 911
Let me show you the FATE OF TRAITORS…
http://www.loiterink.com/photos/products/182_3424_500x500.jpg
they are incapable of telling the difference between SCIENTIFIC *FACT* AND
RELIGIOUS AND PHILOSOPHICAL *TRUTH*... FATAL ERROR!
they also preach a *VALUE FREE SCIENCE* called *POSITIVISM* that ignores the
inequalities of wealth and power in capitalist civilization…
for a sample taste of PZ Myers’ GARBAGE…
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/sunday_sacrilege_imagine_no_he.php
how can these HEADLESS IDIOTS BET AGAINST GOD!!!
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/pascals-wager.htm
THE BOOBQUAKE - 911!
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/the-boobquake-911-t1310.htm
Categories: Religion
the B**BQUAKE - 911 - THE END OF ATHEISM
hawking is WRONG
science cannot explain NOTHING!
FAIR AND BALANCED!
add comment moderation to your BS or more people will die with you…
NO GODS AND NO POLITICS WITH THESE LITTLE IDIOTS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyEISfS15g4&feature=player_embedded
plush safe he think
http://www.christies.com/lotfinderimages/D14781/d1478164x.jpg
but with recent revelations about James Randi, I think he likes DICKS!
____________________
THE SECOND COMING!
THE END OF ATHEISM
FOLLOW THE WHITE RABBIT…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smwrw4sNCxE
THE B**BQUAKE - 911
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeblvLoVJCA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZZ2PPBzP8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvSljPf9on4&feature=related
you are going to pay the price for this….
THE RUBBER DUCKY OF PSEUDOSCIENCE III - JAMES RANDI
http://daddytypes.com/archive/hofman_rubber_duckie.jpg
there is a lot of sh*t to flush!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2AezJo8aQ
THE HEAD OF THE INFIDEL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojR-XRt4rrA
Is America burning yet?
Maybe we need some more…
we use the DIVINE against the ESTABLISHMENT… you?
we do better DEMOLITIONS than you, savage…
RENOUNCE YOUR ATHEISM AND JOIN THE SOCIALIST FAITH!
let them know if the MDC continues more people will die…
the WORLD TRADE CENTER PROPHECY - THE DANCE OF DEATH
FLUSH ATHEISM!
Actually it is a ROYAL FLUSH!!!
Let me show you how ATHEISTS were partially responsible for 911
These ATHEISTS NEED TO BE ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST!
You don’t even have SCIENCE on your side…
You’re a perfect example of when PHILOSOPHY becomes an ENEMY OF LIFE…
http://stephenlaw.blogspot.com/2010/06/playing-mystery-card.html
not quite samantha with her *supernatural spit*, eh?
this isn’t one of your little WORD GAMES…
blasphemy is a DEATH SENTENCE
you people actually BELIEVE the BS you preach!
GOD 1 - atheists 0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQcNiD0Z3MU
Atheists,
you are ENEMIES OF GOD AND ARE GOING TO BE ANNIHILATED…
Repent and turn to God or be destroyed…
YOU HAVE NO CHOICE…
my interpretation of the STATUE FIRE… it symbolizes the SPIRITUAL DEATH of atheism…
http://www.salon.com/news/2010/06/15/us_lightning_strikes_jesus_statue
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2010-06/54332292.jpg
http://friendlyatheist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/butterjesus-1.jpg
PRINCESS DI IS WEARING A NEW DRESS!
http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/speechesandarticles/a_speech_by_hrh_the_prince_of_wales_titled_islam_and_the_env_252516346.html
______________________________
http://skepticblog.org/2010/04/06/would-i-ever-pray-for-a-miracle/
Shermer, I WANT TO SEE YOU BEG FOR A MIRACLE…
___________________
we do like your music Lady Gaga, but…
The B**BQUAKE - 911
Let me show you the FATE OF TRAITORS…
http://www.loiterink.com/photos/products/182_3424_500x500.jpg
they are incapable of telling the difference between SCIENTIFIC *FACT* AND
RELIGIOUS AND PHILOSOPHICAL *TRUTH*... FATAL ERROR!
they also preach a *VALUE FREE SCIENCE* called *POSITIVISM* that ignores the
inequalities of wealth and power in capitalist civilization…
for a sample taste of PZ Myers’ GARBAGE…
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/sunday_sacrilege_imagine_no_he.php
how can these HEADLESS IDIOTS BET AGAINST GOD!!!
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/pascals-wager.htm
THE BOOBQUAKE - 911!
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/the-boobquake-911-t1310.htm
Categories: Religion
The unwanted death of my faith
by Mandy ~
I would like to start by saying that I have not come to this decision lightly. I have done my research. I have pondered the consequences. I still have things to learn.
Image by ♥KatB Photography♥ via FlickrWhen I was in high school, I was "on fire" for "the Lord." I prayed every day, went to church three times a week, and went to all the Christian concerts and volunteer efforts. I tried to do what I thought "God" wanted me to. It worked for me then. Looking back, I feel like I was devout because I hadn't really experienced much of the world (which, admittedly, I still haven't). I only knew what I had grown up around, which was fundamentalist, conservative Christianity. I *knew* that homosexuality was a sin, hell, even *thinking* a "bad thought" was a sin. As a result, I felt guilty all the time. I fell into a deep depression because I felt like I wasn't "fulfilling God's given role" on this earth. Maybe God had already used me for his purpose, and that was it, He was done with me. I began cutting, scratching, and burning myself, which made me feel even guiltier, which in turn made me even more depressed. I had an abusive boyfriend at the time. I felt I wasn't a good women because if I were "Godly" enough, he wouldn't want to berate, hit, and cheat on me. I wanted to die, I just couldn't do it because I was a coward. I would never be able to take my own life. So I stopped trying to be a good Christian. I stopped caring.
Christianity was all I knew. It's the only set of rules I learned to live by. I had to do something, so i concentrated on work and just being happy with my boyfriend.
On top of my depression, I had anxiety attacks. I thought that since I didn't care about my faith anymore, I wasn't a "True Christian" and that I was going to hell. I would have anxiety attacks often, I couldn't breathe. I felt unreal, fake. The thought of burning in hell forever really, really scared me.
Then I came across vegetarianism. I don't know why, but I loved the idea of going veg, so I did. Soon after I realized the deplorable ways animals for consumption are treated and went completely vegan (abstaining from all animal products). I had a new mission. Save as many animals as I could.
Being vegan raised many questions I had about my Christian faith. Why would God not only allow, but encourage, eating animals? They have families, the cry out when in pain, they feel happiness and sadness. There's no way I could feel comfortable with a God that condones the murder of sentient beings. Then I started to realize the way the God of the Bible viewed women. Sure, some had "standout roles", but only in *their* place. If you're telling me those parts of the Bible aren't literal, or are outdated, then I can't be a Christian that picks and chooses my "favorite" parts of the Bible. It's all true, or none of it's true. Then more I really looked at my religion and saw it how I see "other" religions, like Islam or paganism, I could no longer believe. I could no longer believe that scientists are lying or "making mistakes" on things like carbon dating and how old the earth is. Scientists are experts in their field because they test and retest, and if they get a different answer, they change their opinions to fit the world around them, not the other way around. The world is old, there are many things that the human race has been wrong about, we need to continue forward and fix these things.
Instead of worshiping a God and trying to be good in order to not go to hell and be rewarded in heaven, I do good because all sentient being deserve it. I can have a good time for my own sake, to discover the world with what little time I have left. We are all entitled to live life the way we want, and I refuse to believe certain will be punished for all eternity because they don't believe the same way I do.
However emotional that all sounded, the real deal-breaker was that as an adult, it made no sense to me. Just as I know Santa cannot be real, I believe God is not real, either in my former religion or all other existing religions now or in the future.
I still have anxiety sometimes about there being no afterlife. I fear death greatly, but no matter how hard I try, I cannot believe that my future is predestined by God. I do good because I honestly care. That is all I have to give. That has to be enough.
Sorry this was so long, and if it is jumbled or I'm rambling. This was my first time, and I suppose a rough draft, of explaining to someone why I'm an atheist.
I would like to start by saying that I have not come to this decision lightly. I have done my research. I have pondered the consequences. I still have things to learn.
Image by ♥KatB Photography♥ via FlickrWhen I was in high school, I was "on fire" for "the Lord." I prayed every day, went to church three times a week, and went to all the Christian concerts and volunteer efforts. I tried to do what I thought "God" wanted me to. It worked for me then. Looking back, I feel like I was devout because I hadn't really experienced much of the world (which, admittedly, I still haven't). I only knew what I had grown up around, which was fundamentalist, conservative Christianity. I *knew* that homosexuality was a sin, hell, even *thinking* a "bad thought" was a sin. As a result, I felt guilty all the time. I fell into a deep depression because I felt like I wasn't "fulfilling God's given role" on this earth. Maybe God had already used me for his purpose, and that was it, He was done with me. I began cutting, scratching, and burning myself, which made me feel even guiltier, which in turn made me even more depressed. I had an abusive boyfriend at the time. I felt I wasn't a good women because if I were "Godly" enough, he wouldn't want to berate, hit, and cheat on me. I wanted to die, I just couldn't do it because I was a coward. I would never be able to take my own life. So I stopped trying to be a good Christian. I stopped caring.
Christianity was all I knew. It's the only set of rules I learned to live by. I had to do something, so i concentrated on work and just being happy with my boyfriend.
On top of my depression, I had anxiety attacks. I thought that since I didn't care about my faith anymore, I wasn't a "True Christian" and that I was going to hell. I would have anxiety attacks often, I couldn't breathe. I felt unreal, fake. The thought of burning in hell forever really, really scared me.
Then I came across vegetarianism. I don't know why, but I loved the idea of going veg, so I did. Soon after I realized the deplorable ways animals for consumption are treated and went completely vegan (abstaining from all animal products). I had a new mission. Save as many animals as I could.
Being vegan raised many questions I had about my Christian faith. Why would God not only allow, but encourage, eating animals? They have families, the cry out when in pain, they feel happiness and sadness. There's no way I could feel comfortable with a God that condones the murder of sentient beings. Then I started to realize the way the God of the Bible viewed women. Sure, some had "standout roles", but only in *their* place. If you're telling me those parts of the Bible aren't literal, or are outdated, then I can't be a Christian that picks and chooses my "favorite" parts of the Bible. It's all true, or none of it's true. Then more I really looked at my religion and saw it how I see "other" religions, like Islam or paganism, I could no longer believe. I could no longer believe that scientists are lying or "making mistakes" on things like carbon dating and how old the earth is. Scientists are experts in their field because they test and retest, and if they get a different answer, they change their opinions to fit the world around them, not the other way around. The world is old, there are many things that the human race has been wrong about, we need to continue forward and fix these things.
Instead of worshiping a God and trying to be good in order to not go to hell and be rewarded in heaven, I do good because all sentient being deserve it. I can have a good time for my own sake, to discover the world with what little time I have left. We are all entitled to live life the way we want, and I refuse to believe certain will be punished for all eternity because they don't believe the same way I do.
However emotional that all sounded, the real deal-breaker was that as an adult, it made no sense to me. Just as I know Santa cannot be real, I believe God is not real, either in my former religion or all other existing religions now or in the future.
I still have anxiety sometimes about there being no afterlife. I fear death greatly, but no matter how hard I try, I cannot believe that my future is predestined by God. I do good because I honestly care. That is all I have to give. That has to be enough.
Sorry this was so long, and if it is jumbled or I'm rambling. This was my first time, and I suppose a rough draft, of explaining to someone why I'm an atheist.
Categories: Religion
The Intensity of Hell
By ooglyman ~
After leaving home I stayed away from church for several years. I had no pleasant memories of being raised by fundamentalists, and didn’t want to waste any more of my life inside church walls. After some time I married a lapsed Catholic who expressed less interest in religion than I did, and I thought I’d grow old with her. Within a few months she began attending mass at the local parish chapel and laying a head trip on me that I was in need of god.
I followed my ex back to our home town so I could stay in my son’s life. I had him with me on most weekends. One day when my son was two he asked me to take him to church. I had attended my ex-father-in-law’s funeral service at a Catholic church, and I knew I didn’t want to take him to that type of church. I hated the formality and ritual. I found a Protestant church nearby and we began attending occasional services. Usually I dropped him off in Sunday school, walked a few blocks to the local park to smoke a joint, and then walked back in time to take him home.
About this time I stopped writing.
When my son was nine or ten his mother sent him off for the summer to visit relatives in another state. I was lonely without him and hooked up with a lady I had been infatuated with when I was in high school. She was pentecostal and laid down two rules for me if I wanted to date her: stop getting high and to attend her church. It was easy for me to stop smoking weed, but attending church was awful. Not only did they adhere to fundamentalist teachings like the churches I grew up in, but they also did a lot of moaning, wailing and strange utterances that they referred to as “speaking in tongues.” It was nuts, but this lady was a babe so I let my penis do my thinking for me. I even learned to tolerate both of her spoiled brat daughters.
About a year later we were married, and then when my son was twelve his new little sister was born. I noticed tension between my wife and my son, but thought it was something we could work out. His mother thought differently, and she kept me from seeing him for about 18 months. I tried to resolve the issues and get back into my son’s life, but my new wife had other ideas and sabotaged all my efforts. Even into high school his mother insisted I only see him outside of my home. One pastor even advised me to entirely remove my son from my life. According to him my new life should be with my new wife.
Before our daughter was born we moved to a new church, but after several months we left it and started attending the local Calvary Chapel. For me it was a relief to not be attending a church where I was constantly hearing cackling and moaning during the services. CC calls itself charismatic where they believe in “tongues,” but they use it with more restraint. I felt more comfortable among the faithful, and I started studying my bible.
Though I had been raised attending fundamentalist churches I had never read the bible more than was necessary to complete my Sunday school lessons. Even at the IFCA church when I was a teenager I only read what the pastor had us read for the services. Now as an adult it still bugged me to read “scripture.” I enjoyed reading fiction, poetry, world history and science articles, but the bible was dry. I knew how to type so I decided I would type the bible instead of read it. This was in the nineties before I bought my first computer so I started typing scripture on my electric word processor. (I also started to write poetry again.) It took me about a year and a half to type out the complete NIV and New American Standard versions of the bible, and I was about to start in on the New King James when my wife began to behave in a really crazy manner. (Even crazier than typing out the text of the bible.) She had shown some signs of mental illness earlier in our marriage, but now she went completely over the edge of reality.
One evening we were at church when she told me she had to go to the restroom. She was gone for about twenty minutes and I wondered what was keeping her. Fortunately it was dark in the sanctuary because when I looked back toward the last pew I saw her standing totally naked. Without making a fuss I went to her and asked her what she was doing. She mumbled something about it being god’s will, and then I walked her back to the restroom, picking up her clothing that she had removed along the way. I’m not certain if anyone saw her. I kept it low key, and I only spoke to the assistant pastor about it.
The diagnosis was Schizoaffective Disorder. Life began to resemble the intensity of hell. Church was no help. I was told to have faith, to trust in god, to pray. I was even told that I was “blessed.” Then the situation became even worse when my wife’s oldest daughter died shortly after turning twenty-one.
We split up when our daughter was seven, and were divorced a year later. My daughter is sixteen now, and I’ve been raising her without the help of her mother. The truth is her mother can’t even help herself. She has alienated her entire family, including her surviving daughter, and she has gone on extended psychotic episodes where she calls up everyone we know in the middle of the night to tell them that I am a mass murderer and rapist, that I am in league with the devil, and that I am a practicing homosexual on my way to becoming the Antichrist. None of these accusations are true. She still attends different churches and seems to be highly influenced by prophetic studies of the book of Revelation. Occasionally I’ll receive a call from someone I used to know at church who asks me why I have mistreated my wife so badly. Often they hang up before I can reply.
But these aren’t the reasons why I left CC and no longer am searching for another church. What disturbed me about the people at the churches I was attending were the small things they would say. One guy told me that living in a dictatorship would be fine with him as long as the dictator believed in Christ. Another person said he was grateful for the churches distribution of voter guides because he didn’t like to have to think for himself about the issues. Then I finally pulled my daughter out of her Sunday school class after her teacher said that his purpose was to make the students believe that the creation myth was truer than the Theory of Evolution.
There is always a change that my daughter has inherited an inclination for her mother's mental illness, but I don't want it to be fueled by the insanity of biblical teaching. That would be too crazy.
After leaving home I stayed away from church for several years. I had no pleasant memories of being raised by fundamentalists, and didn’t want to waste any more of my life inside church walls. After some time I married a lapsed Catholic who expressed less interest in religion than I did, and I thought I’d grow old with her. Within a few months she began attending mass at the local parish chapel and laying a head trip on me that I was in need of god.
Image by Christolakis via Flickr
It also annoyed her that I was writing poetry and short stories which were being accepted for publication by alternative and new age focused magazines. I was also smoking a great amount of weed and drinking beer with my friends. We were together for three years, and then we split immediately after our son was born.I followed my ex back to our home town so I could stay in my son’s life. I had him with me on most weekends. One day when my son was two he asked me to take him to church. I had attended my ex-father-in-law’s funeral service at a Catholic church, and I knew I didn’t want to take him to that type of church. I hated the formality and ritual. I found a Protestant church nearby and we began attending occasional services. Usually I dropped him off in Sunday school, walked a few blocks to the local park to smoke a joint, and then walked back in time to take him home.
About this time I stopped writing.
When my son was nine or ten his mother sent him off for the summer to visit relatives in another state. I was lonely without him and hooked up with a lady I had been infatuated with when I was in high school. She was pentecostal and laid down two rules for me if I wanted to date her: stop getting high and to attend her church. It was easy for me to stop smoking weed, but attending church was awful. Not only did they adhere to fundamentalist teachings like the churches I grew up in, but they also did a lot of moaning, wailing and strange utterances that they referred to as “speaking in tongues.” It was nuts, but this lady was a babe so I let my penis do my thinking for me. I even learned to tolerate both of her spoiled brat daughters.
About a year later we were married, and then when my son was twelve his new little sister was born. I noticed tension between my wife and my son, but thought it was something we could work out. His mother thought differently, and she kept me from seeing him for about 18 months. I tried to resolve the issues and get back into my son’s life, but my new wife had other ideas and sabotaged all my efforts. Even into high school his mother insisted I only see him outside of my home. One pastor even advised me to entirely remove my son from my life. According to him my new life should be with my new wife.
Before our daughter was born we moved to a new church, but after several months we left it and started attending the local Calvary Chapel. For me it was a relief to not be attending a church where I was constantly hearing cackling and moaning during the services. CC calls itself charismatic where they believe in “tongues,” but they use it with more restraint. I felt more comfortable among the faithful, and I started studying my bible.
Though I had been raised attending fundamentalist churches I had never read the bible more than was necessary to complete my Sunday school lessons. Even at the IFCA church when I was a teenager I only read what the pastor had us read for the services. Now as an adult it still bugged me to read “scripture.” I enjoyed reading fiction, poetry, world history and science articles, but the bible was dry. I knew how to type so I decided I would type the bible instead of read it. This was in the nineties before I bought my first computer so I started typing scripture on my electric word processor. (I also started to write poetry again.) It took me about a year and a half to type out the complete NIV and New American Standard versions of the bible, and I was about to start in on the New King James when my wife began to behave in a really crazy manner. (Even crazier than typing out the text of the bible.) She had shown some signs of mental illness earlier in our marriage, but now she went completely over the edge of reality.
One evening we were at church when she told me she had to go to the restroom. She was gone for about twenty minutes and I wondered what was keeping her. Fortunately it was dark in the sanctuary because when I looked back toward the last pew I saw her standing totally naked. Without making a fuss I went to her and asked her what she was doing. She mumbled something about it being god’s will, and then I walked her back to the restroom, picking up her clothing that she had removed along the way. I’m not certain if anyone saw her. I kept it low key, and I only spoke to the assistant pastor about it.
The diagnosis was Schizoaffective Disorder. Life began to resemble the intensity of hell. Church was no help. I was told to have faith, to trust in god, to pray. I was even told that I was “blessed.” Then the situation became even worse when my wife’s oldest daughter died shortly after turning twenty-one.
We split up when our daughter was seven, and were divorced a year later. My daughter is sixteen now, and I’ve been raising her without the help of her mother. The truth is her mother can’t even help herself. She has alienated her entire family, including her surviving daughter, and she has gone on extended psychotic episodes where she calls up everyone we know in the middle of the night to tell them that I am a mass murderer and rapist, that I am in league with the devil, and that I am a practicing homosexual on my way to becoming the Antichrist. None of these accusations are true. She still attends different churches and seems to be highly influenced by prophetic studies of the book of Revelation. Occasionally I’ll receive a call from someone I used to know at church who asks me why I have mistreated my wife so badly. Often they hang up before I can reply.
But these aren’t the reasons why I left CC and no longer am searching for another church. What disturbed me about the people at the churches I was attending were the small things they would say. One guy told me that living in a dictatorship would be fine with him as long as the dictator believed in Christ. Another person said he was grateful for the churches distribution of voter guides because he didn’t like to have to think for himself about the issues. Then I finally pulled my daughter out of her Sunday school class after her teacher said that his purpose was to make the students believe that the creation myth was truer than the Theory of Evolution.
There is always a change that my daughter has inherited an inclination for her mother's mental illness, but I don't want it to be fueled by the insanity of biblical teaching. That would be too crazy.
Categories: Religion
13 years of delusion and almost becoming a Pastor
By C.L. Allen ~
I wrote this story just over a month ago on my 33rd Birthday after contemplating suicide. Today is August 23rd and I am happy to say that my desire is not to attend the University of London and get a B.A. in Philosophy.
July 20, 2010
I hold no hatred in my heart for her or her family, my hatred has turned into empathetic sorrow for them. I am sick inside from all the hatred and confusion that has come from my heart, and I blame Christianity.
My Story
How I was raised
I grew up in a small rural town in Utah dominated by Mormons. My family from both sides came to Utah pushing handcarts from Iowa in search for Zion. I was not raised Mormon and I was viewed as a rebellious outcast by the community. My Father and Mother married in their teens and went through a bitter divorce when I was very young. I grew up listening to eighties heavy metal and started using drugs at a very young age. I dropped out of school and moved out on my own at the age of fifteen.
Conversion
At the age of nineteen my Grandmother died and my brother kicked me out of his house for good reasons. I was strung out on crystal meth and alcohol. I was wandering the streets suicidal when a friend from work invited me to church. Little did I know that twelve years of my life would be zealously committed to fundamental Christianity with no intentions of ever leaving.
I spend six months at a hyper-Pentecostal church, every time the doors opened I was there. I was taken in to a discipleship home by a radical youth minister and ex drug addict. All I did in those months was work, read the Bible, and watch Evangelists on Christian T.V. I had a hunger for knowledge that I never had before and I felt better then anytime in my life because I was able to stop using drugs and smoking. I was visited by an angel in a dream and told to become a Pastor. The Pentecostal church I was attending became to weird for me. The Pastor actually pushed her daughter in the face while she was praying in the spirit, they were constantly casting out demons, and claiming that amputees should grow back limbs if they had enough faith. When I started going to two churches at the same time the Pentecostal church told me that if I did not commit to there church I had to leave, so I did.
I spent the next twelve years reading systematic theologies and debates between Christians and atheists. I worked on staff full time at a church and as a lay youth councilor. I led many people to Christ, preached sermons at rescue missions, went to school in Mexico, and distributed bibles on the streets of Major cities in the U.S. I had a burning desire to pray and defend the Bible at all costs.
I spent twelve years of my life believing that most of my Family and most of the world will burn in hell for eternity if God did not save them through the preaching of his word. The last few years of my fundamental journey ended in a reformed orthodox Calvinist church. Calvinists pride themselves with intellect and claim the teachings of the Protestant Reformation. In most reformed denominations you cannot even be an ordained minister without a masters in theology, and you must be fluent translating scripture from Greek, and Hebrew. If you are not chosen before time you are going to burn in hell for the rest of eternity.
This belief is supposed to lead you to fall on your knees weeping in repentance because you were chosen by Grace alone and did nothing to earn or merit being saved. I still believe that if you take scripture literally and you believe it to be God’s word you are forced to believe the doctrine of eternal punishment, and if you really truly believed that you would say and do anything to save people from that torment
Bottom line for me:
I spent twelve years of my life believing that most of my Family and most of the world will burn in hell for eternity if God did not save them through the preaching of his word. I memorized scripture and believed that all things work together for my good. I spent ten years begging God for a wife so I could raise Children to glorify his name. I finally met that woman and she was beyond anything that I could have ever imagined. I was headed to Seminary without a B.A. and all my dreams seemed to be coming true. Then it all came crashing down on me at once. I started having chronic neck pain, panic attacks and severe anxiety, so bad that I would lock myself in the house for day’s at a time quaking in fear. The anxiety levels felt like I was in Hell, I would not wish that torture on any human being ever. I now have very much empathy for someone who has panic and anxiety attacks. Through it all I still battled by praying and memorizing scripture to no avail.
Why?, Why?, Why, would the almighty sovereign God of the universe that directs and controls all things punish me in this way? I was not hiding some secret sin, I was not being a hypocrite. In the end I felt like a little kid in a desert dying of thirst and God was standing there with a cold drink of water. Every time I would get close for a drink to save my life and quench my thirst he would pull the glass away and tease me.
Of course the Right-Wing Evangelicals will tell you that I was never saved in the first place, or God will bring me back into his fold. I confronted one very good friend of a decade before I left with these thoughts. He was going through the same thing, major depression, and anxiety. After a few hours of him quoting scripture and arguing with me I witnessed the hurt in his face. He finally admitted that sometimes he wakes up in the morning thinking that Christianity is all just a cruel hoax. Yet he cannot leave because he has no ware else to go.
The Reformers would also say that according to scripture and God’s plan my faith is being tested and I have to trust. Well I did that for twelve years before I finally said enough is enough. I would have rather had my stomach ate out with cancer then to go through what I went and am still going through. Of course the Calvinists make these kinds of statements to you as they drive off in their fifty thousand dollar Suv’s back to their half-million-dollar houses. When you are going through hard times they treat you like you are a lazy bum. What happened to community? What happened to helping your neighbor?
I wrote this story just over a month ago on my 33rd Birthday after contemplating suicide. Today is August 23rd and I am happy to say that my desire is not to attend the University of London and get a B.A. in Philosophy.
July 20, 2010
Image by aussiegall via Flickr
My heart is pounding and my pulse is beating hard as I write this story. You see, one year ago today I was spending my birthday with the love of my life and planning to get married. Today on my 33rd birthday I am reading other peoples testimonies about leaving Fundamentalist Christianity. I am questioning everything that my heart, mind, and soul believed passionately for twelve years. I was going to be a Pastor.I hold no hatred in my heart for her or her family, my hatred has turned into empathetic sorrow for them. I am sick inside from all the hatred and confusion that has come from my heart, and I blame Christianity.
My Story
How I was raised
I grew up in a small rural town in Utah dominated by Mormons. My family from both sides came to Utah pushing handcarts from Iowa in search for Zion. I was not raised Mormon and I was viewed as a rebellious outcast by the community. My Father and Mother married in their teens and went through a bitter divorce when I was very young. I grew up listening to eighties heavy metal and started using drugs at a very young age. I dropped out of school and moved out on my own at the age of fifteen.
Conversion
At the age of nineteen my Grandmother died and my brother kicked me out of his house for good reasons. I was strung out on crystal meth and alcohol. I was wandering the streets suicidal when a friend from work invited me to church. Little did I know that twelve years of my life would be zealously committed to fundamental Christianity with no intentions of ever leaving.
I spend six months at a hyper-Pentecostal church, every time the doors opened I was there. I was taken in to a discipleship home by a radical youth minister and ex drug addict. All I did in those months was work, read the Bible, and watch Evangelists on Christian T.V. I had a hunger for knowledge that I never had before and I felt better then anytime in my life because I was able to stop using drugs and smoking. I was visited by an angel in a dream and told to become a Pastor. The Pentecostal church I was attending became to weird for me. The Pastor actually pushed her daughter in the face while she was praying in the spirit, they were constantly casting out demons, and claiming that amputees should grow back limbs if they had enough faith. When I started going to two churches at the same time the Pentecostal church told me that if I did not commit to there church I had to leave, so I did.
I spent the next twelve years reading systematic theologies and debates between Christians and atheists. I worked on staff full time at a church and as a lay youth councilor. I led many people to Christ, preached sermons at rescue missions, went to school in Mexico, and distributed bibles on the streets of Major cities in the U.S. I had a burning desire to pray and defend the Bible at all costs.
I spent twelve years of my life believing that most of my Family and most of the world will burn in hell for eternity if God did not save them through the preaching of his word. The last few years of my fundamental journey ended in a reformed orthodox Calvinist church. Calvinists pride themselves with intellect and claim the teachings of the Protestant Reformation. In most reformed denominations you cannot even be an ordained minister without a masters in theology, and you must be fluent translating scripture from Greek, and Hebrew. If you are not chosen before time you are going to burn in hell for the rest of eternity.
This belief is supposed to lead you to fall on your knees weeping in repentance because you were chosen by Grace alone and did nothing to earn or merit being saved. I still believe that if you take scripture literally and you believe it to be God’s word you are forced to believe the doctrine of eternal punishment, and if you really truly believed that you would say and do anything to save people from that torment
Bottom line for me:
I spent twelve years of my life believing that most of my Family and most of the world will burn in hell for eternity if God did not save them through the preaching of his word. I memorized scripture and believed that all things work together for my good. I spent ten years begging God for a wife so I could raise Children to glorify his name. I finally met that woman and she was beyond anything that I could have ever imagined. I was headed to Seminary without a B.A. and all my dreams seemed to be coming true. Then it all came crashing down on me at once. I started having chronic neck pain, panic attacks and severe anxiety, so bad that I would lock myself in the house for day’s at a time quaking in fear. The anxiety levels felt like I was in Hell, I would not wish that torture on any human being ever. I now have very much empathy for someone who has panic and anxiety attacks. Through it all I still battled by praying and memorizing scripture to no avail.
Why?, Why?, Why, would the almighty sovereign God of the universe that directs and controls all things punish me in this way? I was not hiding some secret sin, I was not being a hypocrite. In the end I felt like a little kid in a desert dying of thirst and God was standing there with a cold drink of water. Every time I would get close for a drink to save my life and quench my thirst he would pull the glass away and tease me.
Of course the Right-Wing Evangelicals will tell you that I was never saved in the first place, or God will bring me back into his fold. I confronted one very good friend of a decade before I left with these thoughts. He was going through the same thing, major depression, and anxiety. After a few hours of him quoting scripture and arguing with me I witnessed the hurt in his face. He finally admitted that sometimes he wakes up in the morning thinking that Christianity is all just a cruel hoax. Yet he cannot leave because he has no ware else to go.
The Reformers would also say that according to scripture and God’s plan my faith is being tested and I have to trust. Well I did that for twelve years before I finally said enough is enough. I would have rather had my stomach ate out with cancer then to go through what I went and am still going through. Of course the Calvinists make these kinds of statements to you as they drive off in their fifty thousand dollar Suv’s back to their half-million-dollar houses. When you are going through hard times they treat you like you are a lazy bum. What happened to community? What happened to helping your neighbor?
Categories: Religion
My Conversion Experience
By psychman33 ~
This was originally a post on Facebook in response to some criticisms I received for being offensive to Christians. I think that it is also a good addition to this forum. It contains some of my experiences that turned me away from Christianity, as well as an important point about our modern discourse.
I get the impression that my writings, my methods, and my motivations are misunderstood. So, as briefly as I can, I will attempt to explain how I moved from belief to skepticism. In the process, I hope to also clarify my motivations for writing about the subject matter I write about. I hope to show that my message is not one of offense, but one of necessity. Most of the material I will cover here has been covered in some of my other notes and articles. But, this is the first time that I have presented it together with the purpose of defending my actions and words.
Most people know that I spent my youth in the Protestant Christian Church. My father was a deacon when I was born, and a preacher by the time I was about 10 years old. We had nightly bible study every weekday, and church on Wed. and Sun., plus vacation bible schools, revivals, singings, dinners, etc. I spent much of my first two decades of life in one church or another. Toward the end of my time living with my parents, we began to get into the Charismatic Christian movement. Basically, this is all about accepting the promises of the bible in this life, as opposed to focusing on the after life. This includes healing of diseases, the gifts of the spirit, the five-fold ministry, praise and worship as power to defeat the forces of the devil, intercessory prayer warfare, Baptism in the Holy Spirit, Baptism by Fire, etc.
Shortly after I graduated from high school, my oldest brother bought me a plane ticket to stay with him and his family in southwestern Germany. He was in the Army at the time. And, he had fallen in with a really zealous set of Baptists. I had to defend my beliefs from him and the church he was attending. Understand, I wasn't very actively religious at the time. But, I was constantly bombarded with the views of he and his church, often they would gang up against me. As a result of this, I got into the bible even more than I ever had before. It was at this time that the seeds of doubt first began to bloom inside me, not only in my view of Christianity, but in the religion itself. I began to doubt because I had begun to notice not only discrepancies in the bible, but also that those who professed to believe were not necessarily the most moral. I continued to self identify as a Christian for several more years after that, though. I even actively witnessed and went to church during that time. It was all I knew in terms of world view.
In 2000, I had really made a mess of my life in various ways by various choices. I ended up moving back in with my parents for a few months. I have noticed that one of the great patterns of life is that often when someone who was a Christian has a really hard time they fall back on the religion and the god of their youth. I was no exception to this pattern at that time. I went whole hog into Christianity, my doubt from my time in Germany forgotten. I grew a long bushy beard. I wore buttons that said things like "too blessed to be stressed". I did my absolute best to take the bible literally, and to live as it said. I fasted constantly. I prayed and sang, sometimes in English, other times in tongues. I mean I was hard-core. Jesus had said that his yoke was light. But, I didn't find that to be the case. The bible said that if I sought God with all of my strength, and all of my heart, that I would find him. I renewed my mind in the word of God daily. I tried to taste God to see if he was good. You would think, based on all these promises, that I would have been experiencing the Joy of the Lord, and the other fruits of the Spirit. Not only did I not have these experiences, but I didn't even have a basic happiness. I took quite some time, several days, where I did nothing but wait on the Lord. I needed him. And, he never showed. I was crushed. Here I was giving my all, and he didn't even give me a crumb from the table. Confused and hurt, I moved on. I began to get back into society as a "normal" person, and the whole experience faded. I was still a self identifying Christian if you asked me, but you had to ask me. I didn't talk about God or my religion any more.
My main turning point that I would point to as ending my identification as a Christian was time that I spent in an Internet chat room in 2003-2004 talking to people about the bible. Once again, I was trying to defend it. But, this one person got me to get my bible out, and follow along with him. He proceeded to show me, step by step, many contradictions in the text of the bible, as well as example after example of God behaving in ways that were immoral. I had read the bible extensively. Why hadn't I noticed that before? Because I was reading it with a religious slant, a bias that it was the perfect word of God. Well, after that night, seeing that the bible is demonstrably fallible, I couldn't defend being a Christian to myself anymore. I still couldn't admit to myself that I wasn't a Christian, either. That's a scary proposition for anyone who was raised to believe that this was an express one way ticket straight to hell. But, whether I could admit it to myself or not, I was no longer a Christian at that point.
I began to see that the question of the existence of god isn't as clear cut as I wanted it to beIt was about this time that my wife and I decided that I should quit my management job and go back to school. I took several courses in psychology, sociology, and especially philosophy that further opened my eyes. My first philosophy class was the single most enlightening, empowering, and refreshing experience of my life. It helped me to make sense of my emerging doubts. It was in my first philosophy class that I publicly identified myself as an agnostic. Subsequent classes in Comparative Religion and Elementary Logic further elucidated and progressed the conversion process that I was experiencing. I began to examine every aspect of my life and my environment with reason and logic as the basis for understanding. I began to see the importance of thinking clearly and critically. It was not a quick process. It was a long arduous journey, a journey that I am still in the process of making.
I spent a lot of time debating people at school, people on the Internet, debating with myself. My usual subject matter was god, religion, science, etc. More or less what I still bring up most today. But, I started off a lot more extreme than I am now. I used to try to convince people that god didn't exist, because I was convinced that it was always best to let go of religion. I didn't have contact with most of my friends at that point. I wasn't yet on Facebook. Slowly, I began to see that the question of the existence of god isn't as clear cut as I wanted it to be, as it seemed to me at that time. I won some debates, and lost others. But, I found that losing, while difficult to swallow sometimes, is also the best way to learn. Now, normally, if I make a claim, it is because I have researched it and argued it, and it has withstood the test of argument, often more than once. I try not to write posts and make claims that I can't back with a strong argument. I get caught up in arguments and claims others have posted that I'm not quite as prepared to defend my view point. But, my own are carefully considered and researched.
I learned during this time of intense debating one of the most important things I have ever learned, that is the difference between subjective beliefs and objective knowledge. If you are reading this, and aren't familiar with those terms, it would be a great idea to look them up. I learned that the only way to hope to achieve objective knowledge is by following evidence and reason to their conclusions. If there is no evidence or reason to support a claim, then it is not objective. Subjective claims cannot be argued to any satisfactory conclusion. This is the basis of my message, why I post what I post most of the time. I want to show that even though subjective belief is fine for individual persons, it is damaging and divisive to try to apply it to groups of people. I hope that you understand and believe me when I say that I am not attacking anyone's personal belief when I post about god or anything else. I am challenging subjective belief, and it's right to be in the public sphere. I don't condone or recommend belief without evidence. But, I don't condemn it either. I am showing that it is indeed subjective, and being subjective, or lacking evidence, it should not be considered any sort of universally applicable knowledge. There is no way to work out agreement among people concerning non-evidential claims.
My main motivation for seeking to get this message out is the state of the US political system, and the great divide in our nation. So many people seem to be making decisions and taking sides on public matters based on their own subjective beliefs. For example, the abortion debate, stem cell controversy, teaching creationism in science class, separation of church and state, foreign policy, civil rights for gays, and many more very important issues are being fought by opposing sides using subjective beliefs. There are evidential points to consider in each one of these issues that are being largely ignored because of these subjective beliefs. That is another reason that I am so quick to challenge beliefs. When a person is absolutely certain that they know the truth, they are closed to other possibilities. I am hoping to shake up that certainty, to encourage people to look, to pay attention. To try to figure it out in an unbiased manner. That is why I am so insistent that a person be on topic, challenge the points of the argument itself. I am hoping that we can find truth together. But, that can only happen when we are both sincerely looking. The way things are going now, tensions are escalating, people are yelling at each other. And, we can expect this to become an ever widening divide if we don't make changes to the way we talk to each other.
That is the most driving and most important motivation for my words and my actions. But, there are other motivations as well. It's not easy breaking free from two decades of what I now consider to be a form of brainwashing (see my post on this in my notes- note that I didn't accuse anyone of being brainwashed either, as I have been accused of doing). I am still open to the possibility that someone may make a point, concerning the existence of god or any other topic about which I post, that I have never considered before. I don't think I know it all. I know I don't. If I am wrong about the existence of god, I want to know. I want to know because I want to know the truth. But, honestly, I also want to know because of the potential finality of getting it wrong. Now, while I respect and appreciate another person's faith (I am not a stranger to the concept or the experience), that faith is not going to change my mind in any way. This is a secondary motivation to be sure, but it is a motivation all the same.
I've been told by more than one person that my style of writing may be a hindrance to those reading it. As one person told me, I am saying a lot in relatively few words, so it is a bit of a dense read. So, I will briefly address that in this posting as well. Everyone has different types of intelligences, according to a wonderful theory by Howard Gardener. I highly recommend reading about this theory. It really opened my eyes to the nature of intelligence. Not everyone is equally adept at all types of intelligences. We have individual strengths and weaknesses. One of my main strengths involves words, vocabulary, grammar, denotations, connotations, etc. I have been accused of reading a dictionary for fun. I love words. I love the nuance of meanings and implied meanings between similar words. I love using concise and careful language that gets across exactly what I'm trying to say. I don't like the easy misunderstandings that imprecise language produces. Also, I am already talking about controversial subjects, I don't want to use language that may offend more than the subject matter itself. I don't sit and look up words to use to try to impress or confuse people. I try to take care to write coherently and grammatically correct. But, that's as far as the planning goes. It comes out naturally the way I write it. I am trying to be a bit more conversational in this piece. Looking back I can see places where that hasn't happened. But, I am trying.
To conclude, let me reiterate that I know my subject matter is controversial. But, for the reasons given above, I feel that it is necessary to have these conversations. Because I am aware of the controversial nature of these topics, I do my best to be neutral with my tone, and to avoid accusations or recriminations. I don't think that I have made any patently offensive statements on here. You are welcome to look back through my writings to see. If you find one that you think is overtly offensive, bring it to my attention, and I will either try to explain it more thoroughly if I don't agree that it's offensive, or I will issue an apology if it is. But, it is my opinion that it is the subject matter itself that offends most. If that's the case, then I can't really say that I am sorry for that. I hope that by explaining things here, I may take away some of that offense, anyway. If there is a point that I should have covered that I haven't, let me know. I'll try to cover it. Thanks for caring and reading.
This was originally a post on Facebook in response to some criticisms I received for being offensive to Christians. I think that it is also a good addition to this forum. It contains some of my experiences that turned me away from Christianity, as well as an important point about our modern discourse.
I get the impression that my writings, my methods, and my motivations are misunderstood. So, as briefly as I can, I will attempt to explain how I moved from belief to skepticism. In the process, I hope to also clarify my motivations for writing about the subject matter I write about. I hope to show that my message is not one of offense, but one of necessity. Most of the material I will cover here has been covered in some of my other notes and articles. But, this is the first time that I have presented it together with the purpose of defending my actions and words.
Most people know that I spent my youth in the Protestant Christian Church. My father was a deacon when I was born, and a preacher by the time I was about 10 years old. We had nightly bible study every weekday, and church on Wed. and Sun., plus vacation bible schools, revivals, singings, dinners, etc. I spent much of my first two decades of life in one church or another. Toward the end of my time living with my parents, we began to get into the Charismatic Christian movement. Basically, this is all about accepting the promises of the bible in this life, as opposed to focusing on the after life. This includes healing of diseases, the gifts of the spirit, the five-fold ministry, praise and worship as power to defeat the forces of the devil, intercessory prayer warfare, Baptism in the Holy Spirit, Baptism by Fire, etc.
Shortly after I graduated from high school, my oldest brother bought me a plane ticket to stay with him and his family in southwestern Germany. He was in the Army at the time. And, he had fallen in with a really zealous set of Baptists. I had to defend my beliefs from him and the church he was attending. Understand, I wasn't very actively religious at the time. But, I was constantly bombarded with the views of he and his church, often they would gang up against me. As a result of this, I got into the bible even more than I ever had before. It was at this time that the seeds of doubt first began to bloom inside me, not only in my view of Christianity, but in the religion itself. I began to doubt because I had begun to notice not only discrepancies in the bible, but also that those who professed to believe were not necessarily the most moral. I continued to self identify as a Christian for several more years after that, though. I even actively witnessed and went to church during that time. It was all I knew in terms of world view.
In 2000, I had really made a mess of my life in various ways by various choices. I ended up moving back in with my parents for a few months. I have noticed that one of the great patterns of life is that often when someone who was a Christian has a really hard time they fall back on the religion and the god of their youth. I was no exception to this pattern at that time. I went whole hog into Christianity, my doubt from my time in Germany forgotten. I grew a long bushy beard. I wore buttons that said things like "too blessed to be stressed". I did my absolute best to take the bible literally, and to live as it said. I fasted constantly. I prayed and sang, sometimes in English, other times in tongues. I mean I was hard-core. Jesus had said that his yoke was light. But, I didn't find that to be the case. The bible said that if I sought God with all of my strength, and all of my heart, that I would find him. I renewed my mind in the word of God daily. I tried to taste God to see if he was good. You would think, based on all these promises, that I would have been experiencing the Joy of the Lord, and the other fruits of the Spirit. Not only did I not have these experiences, but I didn't even have a basic happiness. I took quite some time, several days, where I did nothing but wait on the Lord. I needed him. And, he never showed. I was crushed. Here I was giving my all, and he didn't even give me a crumb from the table. Confused and hurt, I moved on. I began to get back into society as a "normal" person, and the whole experience faded. I was still a self identifying Christian if you asked me, but you had to ask me. I didn't talk about God or my religion any more.
My main turning point that I would point to as ending my identification as a Christian was time that I spent in an Internet chat room in 2003-2004 talking to people about the bible. Once again, I was trying to defend it. But, this one person got me to get my bible out, and follow along with him. He proceeded to show me, step by step, many contradictions in the text of the bible, as well as example after example of God behaving in ways that were immoral. I had read the bible extensively. Why hadn't I noticed that before? Because I was reading it with a religious slant, a bias that it was the perfect word of God. Well, after that night, seeing that the bible is demonstrably fallible, I couldn't defend being a Christian to myself anymore. I still couldn't admit to myself that I wasn't a Christian, either. That's a scary proposition for anyone who was raised to believe that this was an express one way ticket straight to hell. But, whether I could admit it to myself or not, I was no longer a Christian at that point.
I began to see that the question of the existence of god isn't as clear cut as I wanted it to beIt was about this time that my wife and I decided that I should quit my management job and go back to school. I took several courses in psychology, sociology, and especially philosophy that further opened my eyes. My first philosophy class was the single most enlightening, empowering, and refreshing experience of my life. It helped me to make sense of my emerging doubts. It was in my first philosophy class that I publicly identified myself as an agnostic. Subsequent classes in Comparative Religion and Elementary Logic further elucidated and progressed the conversion process that I was experiencing. I began to examine every aspect of my life and my environment with reason and logic as the basis for understanding. I began to see the importance of thinking clearly and critically. It was not a quick process. It was a long arduous journey, a journey that I am still in the process of making.
I spent a lot of time debating people at school, people on the Internet, debating with myself. My usual subject matter was god, religion, science, etc. More or less what I still bring up most today. But, I started off a lot more extreme than I am now. I used to try to convince people that god didn't exist, because I was convinced that it was always best to let go of religion. I didn't have contact with most of my friends at that point. I wasn't yet on Facebook. Slowly, I began to see that the question of the existence of god isn't as clear cut as I wanted it to be, as it seemed to me at that time. I won some debates, and lost others. But, I found that losing, while difficult to swallow sometimes, is also the best way to learn. Now, normally, if I make a claim, it is because I have researched it and argued it, and it has withstood the test of argument, often more than once. I try not to write posts and make claims that I can't back with a strong argument. I get caught up in arguments and claims others have posted that I'm not quite as prepared to defend my view point. But, my own are carefully considered and researched.
I learned during this time of intense debating one of the most important things I have ever learned, that is the difference between subjective beliefs and objective knowledge. If you are reading this, and aren't familiar with those terms, it would be a great idea to look them up. I learned that the only way to hope to achieve objective knowledge is by following evidence and reason to their conclusions. If there is no evidence or reason to support a claim, then it is not objective. Subjective claims cannot be argued to any satisfactory conclusion. This is the basis of my message, why I post what I post most of the time. I want to show that even though subjective belief is fine for individual persons, it is damaging and divisive to try to apply it to groups of people. I hope that you understand and believe me when I say that I am not attacking anyone's personal belief when I post about god or anything else. I am challenging subjective belief, and it's right to be in the public sphere. I don't condone or recommend belief without evidence. But, I don't condemn it either. I am showing that it is indeed subjective, and being subjective, or lacking evidence, it should not be considered any sort of universally applicable knowledge. There is no way to work out agreement among people concerning non-evidential claims.
My main motivation for seeking to get this message out is the state of the US political system, and the great divide in our nation. So many people seem to be making decisions and taking sides on public matters based on their own subjective beliefs. For example, the abortion debate, stem cell controversy, teaching creationism in science class, separation of church and state, foreign policy, civil rights for gays, and many more very important issues are being fought by opposing sides using subjective beliefs. There are evidential points to consider in each one of these issues that are being largely ignored because of these subjective beliefs. That is another reason that I am so quick to challenge beliefs. When a person is absolutely certain that they know the truth, they are closed to other possibilities. I am hoping to shake up that certainty, to encourage people to look, to pay attention. To try to figure it out in an unbiased manner. That is why I am so insistent that a person be on topic, challenge the points of the argument itself. I am hoping that we can find truth together. But, that can only happen when we are both sincerely looking. The way things are going now, tensions are escalating, people are yelling at each other. And, we can expect this to become an ever widening divide if we don't make changes to the way we talk to each other.
That is the most driving and most important motivation for my words and my actions. But, there are other motivations as well. It's not easy breaking free from two decades of what I now consider to be a form of brainwashing (see my post on this in my notes- note that I didn't accuse anyone of being brainwashed either, as I have been accused of doing). I am still open to the possibility that someone may make a point, concerning the existence of god or any other topic about which I post, that I have never considered before. I don't think I know it all. I know I don't. If I am wrong about the existence of god, I want to know. I want to know because I want to know the truth. But, honestly, I also want to know because of the potential finality of getting it wrong. Now, while I respect and appreciate another person's faith (I am not a stranger to the concept or the experience), that faith is not going to change my mind in any way. This is a secondary motivation to be sure, but it is a motivation all the same.
I've been told by more than one person that my style of writing may be a hindrance to those reading it. As one person told me, I am saying a lot in relatively few words, so it is a bit of a dense read. So, I will briefly address that in this posting as well. Everyone has different types of intelligences, according to a wonderful theory by Howard Gardener. I highly recommend reading about this theory. It really opened my eyes to the nature of intelligence. Not everyone is equally adept at all types of intelligences. We have individual strengths and weaknesses. One of my main strengths involves words, vocabulary, grammar, denotations, connotations, etc. I have been accused of reading a dictionary for fun. I love words. I love the nuance of meanings and implied meanings between similar words. I love using concise and careful language that gets across exactly what I'm trying to say. I don't like the easy misunderstandings that imprecise language produces. Also, I am already talking about controversial subjects, I don't want to use language that may offend more than the subject matter itself. I don't sit and look up words to use to try to impress or confuse people. I try to take care to write coherently and grammatically correct. But, that's as far as the planning goes. It comes out naturally the way I write it. I am trying to be a bit more conversational in this piece. Looking back I can see places where that hasn't happened. But, I am trying.
To conclude, let me reiterate that I know my subject matter is controversial. But, for the reasons given above, I feel that it is necessary to have these conversations. Because I am aware of the controversial nature of these topics, I do my best to be neutral with my tone, and to avoid accusations or recriminations. I don't think that I have made any patently offensive statements on here. You are welcome to look back through my writings to see. If you find one that you think is overtly offensive, bring it to my attention, and I will either try to explain it more thoroughly if I don't agree that it's offensive, or I will issue an apology if it is. But, it is my opinion that it is the subject matter itself that offends most. If that's the case, then I can't really say that I am sorry for that. I hope that by explaining things here, I may take away some of that offense, anyway. If there is a point that I should have covered that I haven't, let me know. I'll try to cover it. Thanks for caring and reading.
Categories: Religion
Dr. Keith Parsons Calls It Quits Regarding the Philosophy of Religion
He wrote: Over the past ten years I have published, in one venue or another, about twenty things on the philosophy of religion. I have a book on the subject, God and Burden of Proof, and another criticizing Christian apologetics, Why I am not a Christian. During my academic career I have debated William Lane Craig twice and creationists twice. I have written one master’s thesis and one doctoral dissertation in the philosophy of religion, and I have taught courses on the subject numerous times. But no more. I’ve had it.
I now regard “the case for theism” as a fraud and I can no longer take it seriously enough to present it to a class as a respectable philosophical position—no more than I could present intelligent design as a legitimate biological theory. BTW, in saying that I now consider the case for theism to be a fraud, I do not mean to charge that the people making that case are frauds who aim to fool us with claims they know to be empty. No, theistic philosophers and apologists are almost painfully earnest and honest; I don’t think there is a Bernie Madoff in the bunch. I just cannot take their arguments seriously any more, and if you cannot take something seriously, you should not try to devote serious academic attention to it. I’ve turned the philosophy of religion courses over to a colleague. Link
I now regard “the case for theism” as a fraud and I can no longer take it seriously enough to present it to a class as a respectable philosophical position—no more than I could present intelligent design as a legitimate biological theory. BTW, in saying that I now consider the case for theism to be a fraud, I do not mean to charge that the people making that case are frauds who aim to fool us with claims they know to be empty. No, theistic philosophers and apologists are almost painfully earnest and honest; I don’t think there is a Bernie Madoff in the bunch. I just cannot take their arguments seriously any more, and if you cannot take something seriously, you should not try to devote serious academic attention to it. I’ve turned the philosophy of religion courses over to a colleague. Link
Categories: Religion
Dr. Keith Parsons Calls It Quits Regarding the Philosophy of Religion
He wrote: Over the past ten years I have published, in one venue or another, about twenty things on the philosophy of religion. I have a book on the subject, God and Burden of Proof, and another criticizing Christian apologetics, Why I am not a Christian. During my academic career I have debated William Lane Craig twice and creationists twice. I have written one master’s thesis and one doctoral dissertation in the philosophy of religion, and I have taught courses on the subject numerous times. But no more. I’ve had it.
I now regard “the case for theism” as a fraud and I can no longer take it seriously enough to present it to a class as a respectable philosophical position—no more than I could present intelligent design as a legitimate biological theory. BTW, in saying that I now consider the case for theism to be a fraud, I do not mean to charge that the people making that case are frauds who aim to fool us with claims they know to be empty. No, theistic philosophers and apologists are almost painfully earnest and honest; I don’t think there is a Bernie Madoff in the bunch. I just cannot take their arguments seriously any more, and if you cannot take something seriously, you should not try to devote serious academic attention to it. I’ve turned the philosophy of religion courses over to a colleague. Link
I now regard “the case for theism” as a fraud and I can no longer take it seriously enough to present it to a class as a respectable philosophical position—no more than I could present intelligent design as a legitimate biological theory. BTW, in saying that I now consider the case for theism to be a fraud, I do not mean to charge that the people making that case are frauds who aim to fool us with claims they know to be empty. No, theistic philosophers and apologists are almost painfully earnest and honest; I don’t think there is a Bernie Madoff in the bunch. I just cannot take their arguments seriously any more, and if you cannot take something seriously, you should not try to devote serious academic attention to it. I’ve turned the philosophy of religion courses over to a colleague. Link
Categories: Religion
I accept your judgment
By rural_atheist ~
I stitched together this narrative, a kind of reverse testimonial, in my personal attempt to understand the warped mindset of my fundamentalist father-in-law. I used accounts from my husband, mother-in-law, and grandparents-in-law. I have changed some names to protect the victims’ privacy.
Steve wasn’t always a fundamentalist. He faithfully drove the church bus on Wednesdays and Sundays, but he wasn’t a fundie; he’d let the kids listen to pop, rap, rock - even contemporary gospel. He didn’t care what translation people used.
He even drank whiskey now and then – after all, his own father had served time for moon-shining – but sometimes, feeling guilty after partaking this a forbidden fruit, Steve would force his gagging 8-year-old son to consume large amounts of alcohol, in order to teach him a lesson about its evils.
A lot of the time, he felt bad after hitting his wife, Laura. After all, Paul admonished him to love her as he loved himself – except, he didn’t love himself all that much. He had nagging insecurities – a fear, ever since they’d began dating as juniors in high school, that Laura planned to leave him. His violent outbursts, coupled with a refusal to learn the material, had forced Steve to leave school; once, he destroyed a metal locker after a teacher refused his request to leave class and monitor Laura’s lunch period.
Laura’s parents say they missed the warning signs. “We should’ve done more,” they whisper. “We should’ve fought for Todd, at least. But when your child is on the phone, begging you not to say anything or you’ll never see her again – because he will kill her – what do you do?”
Once, to Steve’s disapproval, they’d swept Laura to the beach for the express purpose of putting some healthy space between the two; that night, they saw his truck in the parking lot. He’d just happened to show up. A few days before their wedding – with Laura freshly eighteen and just two weeks from graduating (Steve insisted they marry immediately) – they’d gotten into an argument; Laura tried to diffuse the situation by leaving, but Steve grabbed and twisted her arm. Laura wore a long-sleeved wedding dress.
Just like Laura told her son one day, “Daddy has a disease.”
Hopeful, Todd responded, “Really? Will he die?”
“Not that kind of disease. A disease of the heart: he used to watch Grandpa beat Grandma. So when Daddy hits you, I need you to be strong.”
Still, after an unusually rough night, Steve would return from work the next morning and shower her with gifts, tokens of his sorrow. With each gift came the implicit warning, “Look how well I treat you. Never leave me – or else.”
As for Todd, though, Steve just couldn’t work up the remorse; he held the firm belief – as he still makes a point to tell any young males in his presence – that “all boys should be beaten at least once a month, even if they haven’t done anything wrong.”
After all, Proverbs warned Steve of those disrespectful unruly children, their backs free of rod marks, rising against their fathers; the same book warned Todd that should he curse his father – no exceptions – he would die. Rolling Todd’s neck up in the car window, Steve disciplined Todd, and Todd silently cursed his father. (Guess who was sinning?)
One day, Laura picked Todd up from school and they fled to a shelter house; nobody knows why she chose that particular day – she won’t speak of it. After their welcome at the underfunded shelter ran out, she took refuge at her parents’ place. Relatives near and far reported seeing a truck, similar in appearance to Todd’s, patrolling their neighborhoods.
At his grandparents’, Todd got off the school bus to find their preacher – a confidante of Steve’s – sitting on the couch, talking with his mother. Immediately suspicious of the preacher’s motives and protective of his new-found freedom, Todd threw his backpack at the reverend’s face.
“Do you know what Steve did to us?” Laura cried, revealing faded marks on her arms.
“No,” Matthew admitted. “But a sin is a sin is a sin to God – and divorce is a sin. Don’t tear your family apart. If you trust in God, he’ll change Steve.”
“Why won’t you forgive your father?” Laura’s mantra would later become. “Can’t you see that he’s changed?”
Just as nobody knows why Laura left, nobody can figure out why she went back. Perhaps she didn’t like the disapproving whispers that followed her in public. Perhaps, as a deeply religious Christian woman, her beliefs finally got the best of her: she had to trust God. Perhaps, accustomed to the large income from Steve’s business, she got scared in a time when no-fault divorce didn’t really exist because separation was always the woman’s fault.
“I never understood this,” remembers Todd, “During the divorce proceedings — obviously they fell through in the end – my mom stood in the middle of a courtroom and testified about the abuse, showed doctor’s photographs of our injuries. Why didn’t social services investigate?”
The day Laura unexpectedly returned to her husband’s house, her parents sped into the driveway, tossing her and Todd’s things into the yard. Todd begged to go with them, but Laura gently chided him: “Don’t break up the family.”
As for Steve, Laura’s short-lived departure had confirmed his deepest fears: she wanted to leave him.
Steve couldn’t use his fists to keep her in line anymore, though; people would notice that now.
If he called Laura and she didn’t answer, he canvas the relatives’ phones. If she went downstairs without notifying him, he'd into hysteria. Sometimes, Laura would get up at night to use the bathroom – and he'd blow up, accusing her of trying to sneak away. He constantly guilt-tripped her about not really loving him.
The emotional manipulation wasn't enough, though. Instead, he subconsciously turned toward the next-best thing, fundamentalist Christianity: finding its precepts particularly suited to his needs to control his wife, he would use Laura’s own religion against her.
Nobody in their county would dare argue against biblical-based arguments. The Bible calls itself infallible; a True Christian believes it. A known wife-beater says - while holding out his church's offering plate - that he stopped abusing his family; a True Christian believes it. For arguing against an influential preacher’s interpretation of the Bible, Steve had seen destroyed reputations, failed businesses. Incorporating his violent past into his testimony, Steve became a noted preacher in the town.
After describing the graphic abuse he’d perpetrated, he'd yell from the pulpits, “I spent those six on my knees!” Laura and Todd would hide their faces – embarrassed at the public display of dirty laundry.
Instead of repulsing his congregation, though, Steve’s story cemented their beliefs in the life-changing power of Christ – so nobody thought to ask Steve to get off his knees and walk on over to a therapist’s office. To this day, Steve has never attended any kind of therapy program. Touting himself as a changed man, he scoffs at therapy as questionable at best, heretic at worst, and feminine in any case. “We’re too blessed to be depressed. God is enough,” he recites.
As expected, Laura fell for Steve’s sudden devotion, happily and dutifully taking on the role of preacher’s wife -– quiet, modest, fawning, submissive. At Steve’s ordination, the leading reverends explained to her the behavior expected of a good woman. “As the preacher’s wife, the women will always watch you,” they said. “They will talk about what you wear and what you say. For this reason, you must set a good example. Always support your husband and accept his will and guidance in everything.”
“I’d prefer you didn’t talk to your parents so much,” Steve told Laura. “Why not call my mom sometime instead?”
Laura’s mouth began to open in protest. Steve calmly quoted something from his favorite biblical author, Paul. Not wanting to risk arguing against husband (read: God) – like only a Jezebel would – Laura nodded.
“I accept your judgment.”
“I’d prefer you didn’t talk to your friend Missy – why not talk to Suzie from church instead? You told Leo that he could go to a concern with his friends – he can’t, it’s satanic.”
Laura nodded and nodded. “I accept your judgment.”
One day, Steve caught Laura taking prescription pain killers - "a way to numb the memories" – and in a frightened high panic, she took her car and ran away. To this day, Laura warmly recalls of how God, working through Steve, rescued her. The once-timid woman stands up in the congregation and energetically praises God for instantaneously wiping away an addiction of seven years.
Oddly enough, Laura doesn’t remember how Todd convinced her to come home, drove her to the doctor’s office. She doesn’t remember that Steve wouldn’t let her attend rehab: “You might leave me for somebody there. Let God heal your addiction.”
Slowly, Steve moved Laura’s dependency from pills – to him.
Still in tears, Laura’s parents admit that they haven’t seen or heard from their daughter – or Katie, their twelve-year-old granddaughter – in months. Even on the rare occasion that they host a meal or holiday event, Steve always gets sick after eating so he, Laura, and Katie have to rush home.
“I suppose my cooking could be that bad,” Shelley says, truly considering the idea, “but nobody else gets sick. Katie just loves my green beans.”
Robert recalls one of the last times they communicated. “About twenty years ago we gave them the land that they built their first house. Well, recently, they asked for more land, so they could build a storage shed for their work trucks. Of course, I signed over the extra acres. The next month they moved and sold all that land – my grandfather’s land. Thing is, they knew they were going to move all along. They just wanted the land to get a higher selling for their house.”
“I try to be a good Christian and forgive him, but it’s hard.”
I stitched together this narrative, a kind of reverse testimonial, in my personal attempt to understand the warped mindset of my fundamentalist father-in-law. I used accounts from my husband, mother-in-law, and grandparents-in-law. I have changed some names to protect the victims’ privacy.
Steve wasn’t always a fundamentalist. He faithfully drove the church bus on Wednesdays and Sundays, but he wasn’t a fundie; he’d let the kids listen to pop, rap, rock - even contemporary gospel. He didn’t care what translation people used.
He even drank whiskey now and then – after all, his own father had served time for moon-shining – but sometimes, feeling guilty after partaking this a forbidden fruit, Steve would force his gagging 8-year-old son to consume large amounts of alcohol, in order to teach him a lesson about its evils.
A lot of the time, he felt bad after hitting his wife, Laura. After all, Paul admonished him to love her as he loved himself – except, he didn’t love himself all that much. He had nagging insecurities – a fear, ever since they’d began dating as juniors in high school, that Laura planned to leave him. His violent outbursts, coupled with a refusal to learn the material, had forced Steve to leave school; once, he destroyed a metal locker after a teacher refused his request to leave class and monitor Laura’s lunch period.
Laura’s parents say they missed the warning signs. “We should’ve done more,” they whisper. “We should’ve fought for Todd, at least. But when your child is on the phone, begging you not to say anything or you’ll never see her again – because he will kill her – what do you do?”
Once, to Steve’s disapproval, they’d swept Laura to the beach for the express purpose of putting some healthy space between the two; that night, they saw his truck in the parking lot. He’d just happened to show up. A few days before their wedding – with Laura freshly eighteen and just two weeks from graduating (Steve insisted they marry immediately) – they’d gotten into an argument; Laura tried to diffuse the situation by leaving, but Steve grabbed and twisted her arm. Laura wore a long-sleeved wedding dress.
Just like Laura told her son one day, “Daddy has a disease.”
Hopeful, Todd responded, “Really? Will he die?”
“Not that kind of disease. A disease of the heart: he used to watch Grandpa beat Grandma. So when Daddy hits you, I need you to be strong.”
Still, after an unusually rough night, Steve would return from work the next morning and shower her with gifts, tokens of his sorrow. With each gift came the implicit warning, “Look how well I treat you. Never leave me – or else.”
As for Todd, though, Steve just couldn’t work up the remorse; he held the firm belief – as he still makes a point to tell any young males in his presence – that “all boys should be beaten at least once a month, even if they haven’t done anything wrong.”
After all, Proverbs warned Steve of those disrespectful unruly children, their backs free of rod marks, rising against their fathers; the same book warned Todd that should he curse his father – no exceptions – he would die. Rolling Todd’s neck up in the car window, Steve disciplined Todd, and Todd silently cursed his father. (Guess who was sinning?)
One day, Laura picked Todd up from school and they fled to a shelter house; nobody knows why she chose that particular day – she won’t speak of it. After their welcome at the underfunded shelter ran out, she took refuge at her parents’ place. Relatives near and far reported seeing a truck, similar in appearance to Todd’s, patrolling their neighborhoods.
At his grandparents’, Todd got off the school bus to find their preacher – a confidante of Steve’s – sitting on the couch, talking with his mother. Immediately suspicious of the preacher’s motives and protective of his new-found freedom, Todd threw his backpack at the reverend’s face.
“Do you know what Steve did to us?” Laura cried, revealing faded marks on her arms.
“No,” Matthew admitted. “But a sin is a sin is a sin to God – and divorce is a sin. Don’t tear your family apart. If you trust in God, he’ll change Steve.”
“Why won’t you forgive your father?” Laura’s mantra would later become. “Can’t you see that he’s changed?”
Just as nobody knows why Laura left, nobody can figure out why she went back. Perhaps she didn’t like the disapproving whispers that followed her in public. Perhaps, as a deeply religious Christian woman, her beliefs finally got the best of her: she had to trust God. Perhaps, accustomed to the large income from Steve’s business, she got scared in a time when no-fault divorce didn’t really exist because separation was always the woman’s fault.
“I never understood this,” remembers Todd, “During the divorce proceedings — obviously they fell through in the end – my mom stood in the middle of a courtroom and testified about the abuse, showed doctor’s photographs of our injuries. Why didn’t social services investigate?”
The day Laura unexpectedly returned to her husband’s house, her parents sped into the driveway, tossing her and Todd’s things into the yard. Todd begged to go with them, but Laura gently chided him: “Don’t break up the family.”
As for Steve, Laura’s short-lived departure had confirmed his deepest fears: she wanted to leave him.
Steve couldn’t use his fists to keep her in line anymore, though; people would notice that now.
If he called Laura and she didn’t answer, he canvas the relatives’ phones. If she went downstairs without notifying him, he'd into hysteria. Sometimes, Laura would get up at night to use the bathroom – and he'd blow up, accusing her of trying to sneak away. He constantly guilt-tripped her about not really loving him.
The emotional manipulation wasn't enough, though. Instead, he subconsciously turned toward the next-best thing, fundamentalist Christianity: finding its precepts particularly suited to his needs to control his wife, he would use Laura’s own religion against her.
Nobody in their county would dare argue against biblical-based arguments. The Bible calls itself infallible; a True Christian believes it. A known wife-beater says - while holding out his church's offering plate - that he stopped abusing his family; a True Christian believes it. For arguing against an influential preacher’s interpretation of the Bible, Steve had seen destroyed reputations, failed businesses. Incorporating his violent past into his testimony, Steve became a noted preacher in the town.
After describing the graphic abuse he’d perpetrated, he'd yell from the pulpits, “I spent those six on my knees!” Laura and Todd would hide their faces – embarrassed at the public display of dirty laundry.
Instead of repulsing his congregation, though, Steve’s story cemented their beliefs in the life-changing power of Christ – so nobody thought to ask Steve to get off his knees and walk on over to a therapist’s office. To this day, Steve has never attended any kind of therapy program. Touting himself as a changed man, he scoffs at therapy as questionable at best, heretic at worst, and feminine in any case. “We’re too blessed to be depressed. God is enough,” he recites.
As expected, Laura fell for Steve’s sudden devotion, happily and dutifully taking on the role of preacher’s wife -– quiet, modest, fawning, submissive. At Steve’s ordination, the leading reverends explained to her the behavior expected of a good woman. “As the preacher’s wife, the women will always watch you,” they said. “They will talk about what you wear and what you say. For this reason, you must set a good example. Always support your husband and accept his will and guidance in everything.”
“I’d prefer you didn’t talk to your parents so much,” Steve told Laura. “Why not call my mom sometime instead?”
Laura’s mouth began to open in protest. Steve calmly quoted something from his favorite biblical author, Paul. Not wanting to risk arguing against husband (read: God) – like only a Jezebel would – Laura nodded.
“I accept your judgment.”
“I’d prefer you didn’t talk to your friend Missy – why not talk to Suzie from church instead? You told Leo that he could go to a concern with his friends – he can’t, it’s satanic.”
Laura nodded and nodded. “I accept your judgment.”
One day, Steve caught Laura taking prescription pain killers - "a way to numb the memories" – and in a frightened high panic, she took her car and ran away. To this day, Laura warmly recalls of how God, working through Steve, rescued her. The once-timid woman stands up in the congregation and energetically praises God for instantaneously wiping away an addiction of seven years.
Oddly enough, Laura doesn’t remember how Todd convinced her to come home, drove her to the doctor’s office. She doesn’t remember that Steve wouldn’t let her attend rehab: “You might leave me for somebody there. Let God heal your addiction.”
Slowly, Steve moved Laura’s dependency from pills – to him.
Still in tears, Laura’s parents admit that they haven’t seen or heard from their daughter – or Katie, their twelve-year-old granddaughter – in months. Even on the rare occasion that they host a meal or holiday event, Steve always gets sick after eating so he, Laura, and Katie have to rush home.
“I suppose my cooking could be that bad,” Shelley says, truly considering the idea, “but nobody else gets sick. Katie just loves my green beans.”
Robert recalls one of the last times they communicated. “About twenty years ago we gave them the land that they built their first house. Well, recently, they asked for more land, so they could build a storage shed for their work trucks. Of course, I signed over the extra acres. The next month they moved and sold all that land – my grandfather’s land. Thing is, they knew they were going to move all along. They just wanted the land to get a higher selling for their house.”
“I try to be a good Christian and forgive him, but it’s hard.”
Categories: Religion
I accept your judgment
By rural_atheist ~
I stitched together this narrative, a kind of reverse testimonial, in my personal attempt to understand the warped mindset of my fundamentalist father-in-law. I used accounts from my husband, mother-in-law, and grandparents-in-law. I have changed some names to protect the victims’ privacy.
Steve wasn’t always a fundamentalist. He faithfully drove the church bus on Wednesdays and Sundays, but he wasn’t a fundie; he’d let the kids listen to pop, rap, rock - even contemporary gospel. He didn’t care what translation people used.
He even drank whiskey now and then – after all, his own father had served time for moon-shining – but sometimes, feeling guilty after partaking this a forbidden fruit, Steve would force his gagging 8-year-old son to consume large amounts of alcohol, in order to teach him a lesson about its evils.
A lot of the time, he felt bad after hitting his wife, Laura. After all, Paul admonished him to love her as he loved himself – except, he didn’t love himself all that much. He had nagging insecurities – a fear, ever since they’d began dating as juniors in high school, that Laura planned to leave him. His violent outbursts, coupled with a refusal to learn the material, had forced Steve to leave school; once, he destroyed a metal locker after a teacher refused his request to leave class and monitor Laura’s lunch period.
Laura’s parents say they missed the warning signs. “We should’ve done more,” they whisper. “We should’ve fought for Todd, at least. But when your child is on the phone, begging you not to say anything or you’ll never see her again – because he will kill her – what do you do?”
Once, to Steve’s disapproval, they’d swept Laura to the beach for the express purpose of putting some healthy space between the two; that night, they saw his truck in the parking lot. He’d just happened to show up. A few days before their wedding – with Laura freshly eighteen and just two weeks from graduating (Steve insisted they marry immediately) – they’d gotten into an argument; Laura tried to diffuse the situation by leaving, but Steve grabbed and twisted her arm. Laura wore a long-sleeved wedding dress.
Just like Laura told her son one day, “Daddy has a disease.”
Hopeful, Todd responded, “Really? Will he die?”
“Not that kind of disease. A disease of the heart: he used to watch Grandpa beat Grandma. So when Daddy hits you, I need you to be strong.”
Still, after an unusually rough night, Steve would return from work the next morning and shower her with gifts, tokens of his sorrow. With each gift came the implicit warning, “Look how well I treat you. Never leave me – or else.”
As for Todd, though, Steve just couldn’t work up the remorse; he held the firm belief – as he still makes a point to tell any young males in his presence – that “all boys should be beaten at least once a month, even if they haven’t done anything wrong.”
After all, Proverbs warned Steve of those disrespectful unruly children, their backs free of rod marks, rising against their fathers; the same book warned Todd that should he curse his father – no exceptions – he would die. Rolling Todd’s neck up in the car window, Steve disciplined Todd, and Todd silently cursed his father. (Guess who was sinning?)
One day, Laura picked Todd up from school and they fled to a shelter house; nobody knows why she chose that particular day – she won’t speak of it. After their welcome at the underfunded shelter ran out, she took refuge at her parents’ place. Relatives near and far reported seeing a truck, similar in appearance to Todd’s, patrolling their neighborhoods.
At his grandparents’, Todd got off the school bus to find their preacher – a confidante of Steve’s – sitting on the couch, talking with his mother. Immediately suspicious of the preacher’s motives and protective of his new-found freedom, Todd threw his backpack at the reverend’s face.
“Do you know what Steve did to us?” Laura cried, revealing faded marks on her arms.
“No,” Matthew admitted. “But a sin is a sin is a sin to God – and divorce is a sin. Don’t tear your family apart. If you trust in God, he’ll change Steve.”
“Why won’t you forgive your father?” Laura’s mantra would later become. “Can’t you see that he’s changed?”
Just as nobody knows why Laura left, nobody can figure out why she went back. Perhaps she didn’t like the disapproving whispers that followed her in public. Perhaps, as a deeply religious Christian woman, her beliefs finally got the best of her: she had to trust God. Perhaps, accustomed to the large income from Steve’s business, she got scared in a time when no-fault divorce didn’t really exist because separation was always the woman’s fault.
“I never understood this,” remembers Todd, “During the divorce proceedings — obviously they fell through in the end – my mom stood in the middle of a courtroom and testified about the abuse, showed doctor’s photographs of our injuries. Why didn’t social services investigate?”
The day Laura unexpectedly returned to her husband’s house, her parents sped into the driveway, tossing her and Todd’s things into the yard. Todd begged to go with them, but Laura gently chided him: “Don’t break up the family.”
As for Steve, Laura’s short-lived departure had confirmed his deepest fears: she wanted to leave him.
Steve couldn’t use his fists to keep her in line anymore, though; people would notice that now.
If he called Laura and she didn’t answer, he canvas the relatives’ phones. If she went downstairs without notifying him, he'd into hysteria. Sometimes, Laura would get up at night to use the bathroom – and he'd blow up, accusing her of trying to sneak away. He constantly guilt-tripped her about not really loving him.
The emotional manipulation wasn't enough, though. Instead, he subconsciously turned toward the next-best thing, fundamentalist Christianity: finding its precepts particularly suited to his needs to control his wife, he would use Laura’s own religion against her.
Nobody in their county would dare argue against biblical-based arguments. The Bible calls itself infallible; a True Christian believes it. A known wife-beater says - while holding out his church's offering plate - that he stopped abusing his family; a True Christian believes it. For arguing against an influential preacher’s interpretation of the Bible, Steve had seen destroyed reputations, failed businesses. Incorporating his violent past into his testimony, Steve became a noted preacher in the town.
After describing the graphic abuse he’d perpetrated, he'd yell from the pulpits, “I spent those six on my knees!” Laura and Todd would hide their faces – embarrassed at the public display of dirty laundry.
Instead of repulsing his congregation, though, Steve’s story cemented their beliefs in the life-changing power of Christ – so nobody thought to ask Steve to get off his knees and walk on over to a therapist’s office. To this day, Steve has never attended any kind of therapy program. Touting himself as a changed man, he scoffs at therapy as questionable at best, heretic at worst, and feminine in any case. “We’re too blessed to be depressed. God is enough,” he recites.
As expected, Laura fell for Steve’s sudden devotion, happily and dutifully taking on the role of preacher’s wife -– quiet, modest, fawning, submissive. At Steve’s ordination, the leading reverends explained to her the behavior expected of a good woman. “As the preacher’s wife, the women will always watch you,” they said. “They will talk about what you wear and what you say. For this reason, you must set a good example. Always support your husband and accept his will and guidance in everything.”
“I’d prefer you didn’t talk to your parents so much,” Steve told Laura. “Why not call my mom sometime instead?”
Laura’s mouth began to open in protest. Steve calmly quoted something from his favorite biblical author, Paul. Not wanting to risk arguing against husband (read: God) – like only a Jezebel would – Laura nodded.
“I accept your judgment.”
“I’d prefer you didn’t talk to your friend Missy – why not talk to Suzie from church instead? You told Leo that he could go to a concern with his friends – he can’t, it’s satanic.”
Laura nodded and nodded. “I accept your judgment.”
One day, Steve caught Laura taking prescription pain killers - "a way to numb the memories" – and in a frightened high panic, she took her car and ran away. To this day, Laura warmly recalls of how God, working through Steve, rescued her. The once-timid woman stands up in the congregation and energetically praises God for instantaneously wiping away an addiction of seven years.
Oddly enough, Laura doesn’t remember how Todd convinced her to come home, drove her to the doctor’s office. She doesn’t remember that Steve wouldn’t let her attend rehab: “You might leave me for somebody there. Let God heal your addiction.”
Slowly, Steve moved Laura’s dependency from pills – to him.
Still in tears, Laura’s parents admit that they haven’t seen or heard from their daughter – or Katie, their twelve-year-old granddaughter – in months. Even on the rare occasion that they host a meal or holiday event, Steve always gets sick after eating so he, Laura, and Katie have to rush home.
“I suppose my cooking could be that bad,” Shelley says, truly considering the idea, “but nobody else gets sick. Katie just loves my green beans.”
Robert recalls one of the last times they communicated. “About twenty years ago we gave them the land that they built their first house. Well, recently, they asked for more land, so they could build a storage shed for their work trucks. Of course, I signed over the extra acres. The next month they moved and sold all that land – my grandfather’s land. Thing is, they knew they were going to move all along. They just wanted the land to get a higher selling for their house.”
“I try to be a good Christian and forgive him, but it’s hard.”
I stitched together this narrative, a kind of reverse testimonial, in my personal attempt to understand the warped mindset of my fundamentalist father-in-law. I used accounts from my husband, mother-in-law, and grandparents-in-law. I have changed some names to protect the victims’ privacy.
Steve wasn’t always a fundamentalist. He faithfully drove the church bus on Wednesdays and Sundays, but he wasn’t a fundie; he’d let the kids listen to pop, rap, rock - even contemporary gospel. He didn’t care what translation people used.
He even drank whiskey now and then – after all, his own father had served time for moon-shining – but sometimes, feeling guilty after partaking this a forbidden fruit, Steve would force his gagging 8-year-old son to consume large amounts of alcohol, in order to teach him a lesson about its evils.
A lot of the time, he felt bad after hitting his wife, Laura. After all, Paul admonished him to love her as he loved himself – except, he didn’t love himself all that much. He had nagging insecurities – a fear, ever since they’d began dating as juniors in high school, that Laura planned to leave him. His violent outbursts, coupled with a refusal to learn the material, had forced Steve to leave school; once, he destroyed a metal locker after a teacher refused his request to leave class and monitor Laura’s lunch period.
Laura’s parents say they missed the warning signs. “We should’ve done more,” they whisper. “We should’ve fought for Todd, at least. But when your child is on the phone, begging you not to say anything or you’ll never see her again – because he will kill her – what do you do?”
Once, to Steve’s disapproval, they’d swept Laura to the beach for the express purpose of putting some healthy space between the two; that night, they saw his truck in the parking lot. He’d just happened to show up. A few days before their wedding – with Laura freshly eighteen and just two weeks from graduating (Steve insisted they marry immediately) – they’d gotten into an argument; Laura tried to diffuse the situation by leaving, but Steve grabbed and twisted her arm. Laura wore a long-sleeved wedding dress.
Just like Laura told her son one day, “Daddy has a disease.”
Hopeful, Todd responded, “Really? Will he die?”
“Not that kind of disease. A disease of the heart: he used to watch Grandpa beat Grandma. So when Daddy hits you, I need you to be strong.”
Still, after an unusually rough night, Steve would return from work the next morning and shower her with gifts, tokens of his sorrow. With each gift came the implicit warning, “Look how well I treat you. Never leave me – or else.”
As for Todd, though, Steve just couldn’t work up the remorse; he held the firm belief – as he still makes a point to tell any young males in his presence – that “all boys should be beaten at least once a month, even if they haven’t done anything wrong.”
After all, Proverbs warned Steve of those disrespectful unruly children, their backs free of rod marks, rising against their fathers; the same book warned Todd that should he curse his father – no exceptions – he would die. Rolling Todd’s neck up in the car window, Steve disciplined Todd, and Todd silently cursed his father. (Guess who was sinning?)
One day, Laura picked Todd up from school and they fled to a shelter house; nobody knows why she chose that particular day – she won’t speak of it. After their welcome at the underfunded shelter ran out, she took refuge at her parents’ place. Relatives near and far reported seeing a truck, similar in appearance to Todd’s, patrolling their neighborhoods.
At his grandparents’, Todd got off the school bus to find their preacher – a confidante of Steve’s – sitting on the couch, talking with his mother. Immediately suspicious of the preacher’s motives and protective of his new-found freedom, Todd threw his backpack at the reverend’s face.
“Do you know what Steve did to us?” Laura cried, revealing faded marks on her arms.
“No,” Matthew admitted. “But a sin is a sin is a sin to God – and divorce is a sin. Don’t tear your family apart. If you trust in God, he’ll change Steve.”
“Why won’t you forgive your father?” Laura’s mantra would later become. “Can’t you see that he’s changed?”
Just as nobody knows why Laura left, nobody can figure out why she went back. Perhaps she didn’t like the disapproving whispers that followed her in public. Perhaps, as a deeply religious Christian woman, her beliefs finally got the best of her: she had to trust God. Perhaps, accustomed to the large income from Steve’s business, she got scared in a time when no-fault divorce didn’t really exist because separation was always the woman’s fault.
“I never understood this,” remembers Todd, “During the divorce proceedings — obviously they fell through in the end – my mom stood in the middle of a courtroom and testified about the abuse, showed doctor’s photographs of our injuries. Why didn’t social services investigate?”
The day Laura unexpectedly returned to her husband’s house, her parents sped into the driveway, tossing her and Todd’s things into the yard. Todd begged to go with them, but Laura gently chided him: “Don’t break up the family.”
As for Steve, Laura’s short-lived departure had confirmed his deepest fears: she wanted to leave him.
Steve couldn’t use his fists to keep her in line anymore, though; people would notice that now.
If he called Laura and she didn’t answer, he canvas the relatives’ phones. If she went downstairs without notifying him, he'd into hysteria. Sometimes, Laura would get up at night to use the bathroom – and he'd blow up, accusing her of trying to sneak away. He constantly guilt-tripped her about not really loving him.
The emotional manipulation wasn't enough, though. Instead, he subconsciously turned toward the next-best thing, fundamentalist Christianity: finding its precepts particularly suited to his needs to control his wife, he would use Laura’s own religion against her.
Nobody in their county would dare argue against biblical-based arguments. The Bible calls itself infallible; a True Christian believes it. A known wife-beater says - while holding out his church's offering plate - that he stopped abusing his family; a True Christian believes it. For arguing against an influential preacher’s interpretation of the Bible, Steve had seen destroyed reputations, failed businesses. Incorporating his violent past into his testimony, Steve became a noted preacher in the town.
After describing the graphic abuse he’d perpetrated, he'd yell from the pulpits, “I spent those six on my knees!” Laura and Todd would hide their faces – embarrassed at the public display of dirty laundry.
Instead of repulsing his congregation, though, Steve’s story cemented their beliefs in the life-changing power of Christ – so nobody thought to ask Steve to get off his knees and walk on over to a therapist’s office. To this day, Steve has never attended any kind of therapy program. Touting himself as a changed man, he scoffs at therapy as questionable at best, heretic at worst, and feminine in any case. “We’re too blessed to be depressed. God is enough,” he recites.
As expected, Laura fell for Steve’s sudden devotion, happily and dutifully taking on the role of preacher’s wife -– quiet, modest, fawning, submissive. At Steve’s ordination, the leading reverends explained to her the behavior expected of a good woman. “As the preacher’s wife, the women will always watch you,” they said. “They will talk about what you wear and what you say. For this reason, you must set a good example. Always support your husband and accept his will and guidance in everything.”
“I’d prefer you didn’t talk to your parents so much,” Steve told Laura. “Why not call my mom sometime instead?”
Laura’s mouth began to open in protest. Steve calmly quoted something from his favorite biblical author, Paul. Not wanting to risk arguing against husband (read: God) – like only a Jezebel would – Laura nodded.
“I accept your judgment.”
“I’d prefer you didn’t talk to your friend Missy – why not talk to Suzie from church instead? You told Leo that he could go to a concern with his friends – he can’t, it’s satanic.”
Laura nodded and nodded. “I accept your judgment.”
One day, Steve caught Laura taking prescription pain killers - "a way to numb the memories" – and in a frightened high panic, she took her car and ran away. To this day, Laura warmly recalls of how God, working through Steve, rescued her. The once-timid woman stands up in the congregation and energetically praises God for instantaneously wiping away an addiction of seven years.
Oddly enough, Laura doesn’t remember how Todd convinced her to come home, drove her to the doctor’s office. She doesn’t remember that Steve wouldn’t let her attend rehab: “You might leave me for somebody there. Let God heal your addiction.”
Slowly, Steve moved Laura’s dependency from pills – to him.
Still in tears, Laura’s parents admit that they haven’t seen or heard from their daughter – or Katie, their twelve-year-old granddaughter – in months. Even on the rare occasion that they host a meal or holiday event, Steve always gets sick after eating so he, Laura, and Katie have to rush home.
“I suppose my cooking could be that bad,” Shelley says, truly considering the idea, “but nobody else gets sick. Katie just loves my green beans.”
Robert recalls one of the last times they communicated. “About twenty years ago we gave them the land that they built their first house. Well, recently, they asked for more land, so they could build a storage shed for their work trucks. Of course, I signed over the extra acres. The next month they moved and sold all that land – my grandfather’s land. Thing is, they knew they were going to move all along. They just wanted the land to get a higher selling for their house.”
“I try to be a good Christian and forgive him, but it’s hard.”
Categories: Religion
Idle thoughts on a quiet morning...
By Elly ~
Whenever I listen to beautiful and lively music, I think to myself, 'A world containing music like this should not be allowed to have bad things happen.' I believe that someday, perhaps thousands of years from now, humans will have made that peaceful world possible. I can sense a kind of awakening already, just by observing the extreme polarization going on.
Image by lilybartlett via FlickrI hold Christianity as an example. Its outward practices are growing more and more absurd-looking as its "outspoken few" are trying harder and harder to push itself into mainstream society. God is slowly being portrayed as a shallow, abusive, sex-obsessed parent, represented by his followers. Continuing in it as a believer no longer looks quite as appealing, due to the idea of Heaven being spent worshiping such a god. I present ourselves as evidence.
Now, Christianity's very beliefs are being transformed into something invasive and ridiculous. I can't imagine that anyone until recently thought non-Christians would grant their creation story complete credibility as scientific fact. I mean, really? Once the ideas of someone being sculpted around an amputated rib which was previously made out of clay and that the earth is 6,000 years old were predictably laughed at, they took it as proof that Christianity was finally being persecuted. Or so that's the impression I get.
Never mind the fact that if those of other religions tried to present their own beliefs as mainstream fact, they'd be laughed at just as much. Never mind the fact that compared to the number of people in the world who greatly outnumber their own members, they themselves can claim "small and narrow is the path to righteousness" status.
And finally, if you think about it, the supposedly "metaphorical" stories in the Bible sound exactly as myth-like as those of all other religions. Common historical events inspiring imaginative legends that are written down and passed along throughout the generations, locked into their culture by one thing... fear of damnation or spiritual stagnation if they don't believe that they are true? The thought both amuses and exasperates me.
Whenever I listen to beautiful and lively music, I think to myself, 'A world containing music like this should not be allowed to have bad things happen.' I believe that someday, perhaps thousands of years from now, humans will have made that peaceful world possible. I can sense a kind of awakening already, just by observing the extreme polarization going on.
Image by lilybartlett via FlickrI hold Christianity as an example. Its outward practices are growing more and more absurd-looking as its "outspoken few" are trying harder and harder to push itself into mainstream society. God is slowly being portrayed as a shallow, abusive, sex-obsessed parent, represented by his followers. Continuing in it as a believer no longer looks quite as appealing, due to the idea of Heaven being spent worshiping such a god. I present ourselves as evidence.
Now, Christianity's very beliefs are being transformed into something invasive and ridiculous. I can't imagine that anyone until recently thought non-Christians would grant their creation story complete credibility as scientific fact. I mean, really? Once the ideas of someone being sculpted around an amputated rib which was previously made out of clay and that the earth is 6,000 years old were predictably laughed at, they took it as proof that Christianity was finally being persecuted. Or so that's the impression I get.
Never mind the fact that if those of other religions tried to present their own beliefs as mainstream fact, they'd be laughed at just as much. Never mind the fact that compared to the number of people in the world who greatly outnumber their own members, they themselves can claim "small and narrow is the path to righteousness" status.
And finally, if you think about it, the supposedly "metaphorical" stories in the Bible sound exactly as myth-like as those of all other religions. Common historical events inspiring imaginative legends that are written down and passed along throughout the generations, locked into their culture by one thing... fear of damnation or spiritual stagnation if they don't believe that they are true? The thought both amuses and exasperates me.
Categories: Religion
Idle thoughts on a quiet morning...
By Elly ~
Whenever I listen to beautiful and lively music, I think to myself, 'A world containing music like this should not be allowed to have bad things happen.' I believe that someday, perhaps thousands of years from now, humans will have made that peaceful world possible. I can sense a kind of awakening already, just by observing the extreme polarization going on.
Image by lilybartlett via FlickrI hold Christianity as an example. Its outward practices are growing more and more absurd-looking as its "outspoken few" are trying harder and harder to push itself into mainstream society. God is slowly being portrayed as a shallow, abusive, sex-obsessed parent, represented by his followers. Continuing in it as a believer no longer looks quite as appealing, due to the idea of Heaven being spent worshiping such a god. I present ourselves as evidence.
Now, Christianity's very beliefs are being transformed into something invasive and ridiculous. I can't imagine that anyone until recently thought non-Christians would grant their creation story complete credibility as scientific fact. I mean, really? Once the ideas of someone being sculpted around an amputated rib which was previously made out of clay and that the earth is 6,000 years old were predictably laughed at, they took it as proof that Christianity was finally being persecuted. Or so that's the impression I get.
Never mind the fact that if those of other religions tried to present their own beliefs as mainstream fact, they'd be laughed at just as much. Never mind the fact that compared to the number of people in the world who greatly outnumber their own members, they themselves can claim "small and narrow is the path to righteousness" status.
And finally, if you think about it, the supposedly "metaphorical" stories in the Bible sound exactly as myth-like as those of all other religions. Common historical events inspiring imaginative legends that are written down and passed along throughout the generations, locked into their culture by one thing... fear of damnation or spiritual stagnation if they don't believe that they are true? The thought both amuses and exasperates me.
Whenever I listen to beautiful and lively music, I think to myself, 'A world containing music like this should not be allowed to have bad things happen.' I believe that someday, perhaps thousands of years from now, humans will have made that peaceful world possible. I can sense a kind of awakening already, just by observing the extreme polarization going on.
Image by lilybartlett via FlickrI hold Christianity as an example. Its outward practices are growing more and more absurd-looking as its "outspoken few" are trying harder and harder to push itself into mainstream society. God is slowly being portrayed as a shallow, abusive, sex-obsessed parent, represented by his followers. Continuing in it as a believer no longer looks quite as appealing, due to the idea of Heaven being spent worshiping such a god. I present ourselves as evidence.
Now, Christianity's very beliefs are being transformed into something invasive and ridiculous. I can't imagine that anyone until recently thought non-Christians would grant their creation story complete credibility as scientific fact. I mean, really? Once the ideas of someone being sculpted around an amputated rib which was previously made out of clay and that the earth is 6,000 years old were predictably laughed at, they took it as proof that Christianity was finally being persecuted. Or so that's the impression I get.
Never mind the fact that if those of other religions tried to present their own beliefs as mainstream fact, they'd be laughed at just as much. Never mind the fact that compared to the number of people in the world who greatly outnumber their own members, they themselves can claim "small and narrow is the path to righteousness" status.
And finally, if you think about it, the supposedly "metaphorical" stories in the Bible sound exactly as myth-like as those of all other religions. Common historical events inspiring imaginative legends that are written down and passed along throughout the generations, locked into their culture by one thing... fear of damnation or spiritual stagnation if they don't believe that they are true? The thought both amuses and exasperates me.
Categories: Religion
the B**BQUAKE - 911 the end of atheism
FAIR AND BALANCED!
http://media.depechemode.com/micro_sites/remasters/gr/wallpaper/violator_8_640.jpg
____________________________________
NO GODS AND NO POLITICS WITH THESE LITTLE IDIOTS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyEISfS15g4&feature=player_embedded
plush safe he think
http://www.christies.com/lotfinderimages/D14781/d1478164x.jpg
but with recent revelations about James Randi, I think he likes DICKS!
____________________
THE SECOND COMING!
THE END OF ATHEISM
FOLLOW THE WHITE RABBIT…
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smwrw4sNCxE
____________________________________________
THE B**BQUAKE - 911
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeblvLoVJCA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZZ2PPBzP8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvSljPf9on4&feature=related
you are going to pay the price for this….
THE RUBBER DUCKY OF PSEUDOSCIENCE III - JAMES RANDI
http://daddytypes.com/archive/hofman_rubber_duckie.jpg
there is a lot of sh*t to flush!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2AezJo8aQ
THE HEAD OF THE INFIDEL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojR-XRt4rrA
Is America burning yet?
Maybe we need some more…
we use the DIVINE against the ESTABLISHMENT… you?
we do better DEMOLITIONS than you, savage…
RENOUNCE YOUR ATHEISM AND JOIN THE SOCIALIST FAITH!
let them know if the MDC continues more people will die…
the WORLD TRADE CENTER PROPHECY - THE DANCE OF DEATH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Hez25fFrg
FLUSH ATHEISM!
Actually it is a ROYAL FLUSH!!!
Let me show you how ATHEISTS were partially responsible for 911
These ATHEISTS NEED TO BE ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST!
You don’t even have SCIENCE on your side…
You’re a perfect example of when PHILOSOPHY becomes an ENEMY OF LIFE…
http://stephenlaw.blogspot.com/2010/06/playing-mystery-card.html
not quite samantha with her *supernatural spit*, eh?
this isn’t one of your little WORD GAMES…
blasphemy is a DEATH SENTENCE
you people actually BELIEVE the BS you preach!
GOD 1 - atheists 0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQcNiD0Z3MU
Atheists,
you are ENEMIES OF GOD AND ARE GOING TO BE ANNIHILATED…
Repent and turn to God or be destroyed…
YOU HAVE NO CHOICE…
my interpretation of the STATUE FIRE… it symbolizes the SPIRITUAL DEATH of atheism…
http://www.salon.com/news/2010/06/15/us_lightning_strikes_jesus_statue
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2010-06/54332292.jpg
http://friendlyatheist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/butterjesus-1.jpg
PRINCESS DI IS WEARING A NEW DRESS!
http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/speechesandarticles/a_speech_by_hrh_the_prince_of_wales_titled_islam_and_the_env_252516346.html
______________________________
http://skepticblog.org/2010/04/06/would-i-ever-pray-for-a-miracle/
Shermer, I WANT TO SEE YOU BEG FOR A MIRACLE…
___________________
we do like your music Lady Gaga, but…
The B**BQUAKE - 911
Let me show you the FATE OF TRAITORS…
http://www.loiterink.com/photos/products/182_3424_500x500.jpg
they are incapable of telling the difference between SCIENTIFIC *FACT* AND
RELIGIOUS AND PHILOSOPHICAL *TRUTH*... FATAL ERROR!
they also preach a *VALUE FREE SCIENCE* called *POSITIVISM* that ignores the
inequalities of wealth and power in capitalist civilization…
for a sample taste of PZ Myers’ GARBAGE…
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/sunday_sacrilege_imagine_no_he.php
HIJACKING IN PROGRESS!!!
http://hawaiiwebgroup.com/maui-design/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/website-hijacking.jpg
HIJACKING IN PROGRESS!!!
how can these HEADLESS IDIOTS BET AGAINST GOD!!!
________________________________________
what happens when you LOSE Pascal’s Wager…
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/pascals-wager.htm
____________
you FIGHT PAPER MONSTERS…
THE BOOBQUAKE - 911!
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/the-boobquake-911-t1310.htm
Categories: Religion
the B**BQUAKE - 911 the end of atheism
FAIR AND BALANCED!
http://media.depechemode.com/micro_sites/remasters/gr/wallpaper/violator_8_640.jpg
____________________________________
NO GODS AND NO POLITICS WITH THESE LITTLE IDIOTS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyEISfS15g4&feature=player_embedded
plush safe he think
http://www.christies.com/lotfinderimages/D14781/d1478164x.jpg
but with recent revelations about James Randi, I think he likes DICKS!
____________________
THE SECOND COMING!
THE END OF ATHEISM
FOLLOW THE WHITE RABBIT…
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smwrw4sNCxE
____________________________________________
THE B**BQUAKE - 911
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeblvLoVJCA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZZ2PPBzP8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvSljPf9on4&feature=related
you are going to pay the price for this….
THE RUBBER DUCKY OF PSEUDOSCIENCE III - JAMES RANDI
http://daddytypes.com/archive/hofman_rubber_duckie.jpg
there is a lot of sh*t to flush!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2AezJo8aQ
THE HEAD OF THE INFIDEL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojR-XRt4rrA
Is America burning yet?
Maybe we need some more…
we use the DIVINE against the ESTABLISHMENT… you?
we do better DEMOLITIONS than you, savage…
RENOUNCE YOUR ATHEISM AND JOIN THE SOCIALIST FAITH!
let them know if the MDC continues more people will die…
the WORLD TRADE CENTER PROPHECY - THE DANCE OF DEATH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Hez25fFrg
FLUSH ATHEISM!
Actually it is a ROYAL FLUSH!!!
Let me show you how ATHEISTS were partially responsible for 911
These ATHEISTS NEED TO BE ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST!
You don’t even have SCIENCE on your side…
You’re a perfect example of when PHILOSOPHY becomes an ENEMY OF LIFE…
http://stephenlaw.blogspot.com/2010/06/playing-mystery-card.html
not quite samantha with her *supernatural spit*, eh?
this isn’t one of your little WORD GAMES…
blasphemy is a DEATH SENTENCE
you people actually BELIEVE the BS you preach!
GOD 1 - atheists 0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQcNiD0Z3MU
Atheists,
you are ENEMIES OF GOD AND ARE GOING TO BE ANNIHILATED…
Repent and turn to God or be destroyed…
YOU HAVE NO CHOICE…
my interpretation of the STATUE FIRE… it symbolizes the SPIRITUAL DEATH of atheism…
http://www.salon.com/news/2010/06/15/us_lightning_strikes_jesus_statue
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2010-06/54332292.jpg
http://friendlyatheist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/butterjesus-1.jpg
PRINCESS DI IS WEARING A NEW DRESS!
http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/speechesandarticles/a_speech_by_hrh_the_prince_of_wales_titled_islam_and_the_env_252516346.html
______________________________
http://skepticblog.org/2010/04/06/would-i-ever-pray-for-a-miracle/
Shermer, I WANT TO SEE YOU BEG FOR A MIRACLE…
___________________
we do like your music Lady Gaga, but…
The B**BQUAKE - 911
Let me show you the FATE OF TRAITORS…
http://www.loiterink.com/photos/products/182_3424_500x500.jpg
they are incapable of telling the difference between SCIENTIFIC *FACT* AND
RELIGIOUS AND PHILOSOPHICAL *TRUTH*... FATAL ERROR!
they also preach a *VALUE FREE SCIENCE* called *POSITIVISM* that ignores the
inequalities of wealth and power in capitalist civilization…
for a sample taste of PZ Myers’ GARBAGE…
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/sunday_sacrilege_imagine_no_he.php
HIJACKING IN PROGRESS!!!
http://hawaiiwebgroup.com/maui-design/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/website-hijacking.jpg
HIJACKING IN PROGRESS!!!
how can these HEADLESS IDIOTS BET AGAINST GOD!!!
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what happens when you LOSE Pascal’s Wager…
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/pascals-wager.htm
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you FIGHT PAPER MONSTERS…
THE BOOBQUAKE - 911!
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/the-boobquake-911-t1310.htm
Categories: Religion
I Now Have an Online Shop
To the left is one of the items you can buy. I plan on creating others. If you have some interesting slogans you would like to see on some select merchandise let me know. This is gonna be good. And yes, when you buy an item you proclaim your undying loyal allegiance for this site til you die (okay, okay, that was a bit over the top I'll admit). But you will help advertise this site for me, and I'll receive some needed money when you do.
Just click here.
Categories: Religion
I Now Have an Online Shop
To the left is one of the items you can buy. I plan on creating others. If you have some interesting slogans you would like to see on some select merchandise let me know. This is gonna be good. And yes, when you buy an item you proclaim your undying loyal allegiance for this site til you die (okay, okay, that was a bit over the top I'll admit). But you will help advertise this site for me, and I'll receive some needed money when you do.
Just click here.
Categories: Religion
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